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96 Eldorado Vulnerabilities

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Posted by: OldRelayer

We have been looking for a nicer winter car for a long while. We went around and around and finally we saw a 96 Eldorado we liked, with 102K, in what I would consider excellent condition considering the year.

I had been looking at STS's of the same vintage as an option and one thing that keeps on coming up is the head gasket issue. Are their any preventive measures we can take to insure that it won't blow short of just replacing it?

Are there anyother trouble area's I should be looking at? I do know the Radiator and the AC compressor have recently been replaced. I may contact the previous owner to see what else has been done. The dealer put rotors on and did a full tune up including wires, it runs real well. We also have a 98 Mark which we love but it is lethal in the snow. I guess the cars are pretty comparable, I have never had an Eldorado before and know little, on the other hand, we have had 5 Marks. I am guessing that the Eldorado will be more expensive to keep, our Marks have been pretty much bullet proof.

I will welcome any insight on how to keep the baby running for a long time.

Thanks,
Barry

Posted by: Redwingvksm

See the shocks if they have been replaced.
Lower Ball Joints. (Check the whole front end though)
Oil leaks. Very bad w/ the N*
Exhaust around here in the Salt Belt (I'm in MI) are quite bad w/ age. I'd make sure that isn't about to fall off after hitting a good bump.
Check amd make sure the proper coolant is in there. That'll do to things. 1. It'll show how well it was kept up 2. That'll help and see if there is a head problem
I've seen TONS of N*'s w/ the T-Stat gutted out for early signs of head gaskets. 2 8mm bolts will allow you to see what's going on in there.

And than the usual checklist when you are buying a used vehicle.

This is everything that I can think of off the top of my head (i'm a mechanic so there are the common things that come to mind w/ the years you provided and the make/model)

There really isn't any way around the head gasket. When it goes - it goes. People say to add that gunk into the rad to stop it - but do NOT do this. All it'll do is plug up your rad/heatercore and you'll still have a blown headgasket. Just gotta bite the bullet when it comes. I've found it common around here @ 150,000+miles here (that's when the engine is no good any longer) so just make sure to go over the head gasket w/ a fine tooth comb.

Hope this helps and keeps ya busy.

Posted by: MAC1

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redwingvksm

See the shocks if they have been replaced.
There really isn't any way around the head gasket. When it goes - it goes. People say to add that gunk into the rad to stop it - but do NOT do this. All it'll do is plug up your rad/heatercore and you'll still have a blown headgasket. Just gotta bite the bullet when it comes. I've found it common around here @ 150,000+miles here (that's when the engine is no good any longer) so just make sure to go over the head gasket w/ a fine tooth comb.

Hope this helps and keeps ya busy.

I have 214,000 miles on my 94 Eldorado and it's still going strong. Many get well over 150K miles one Northstar engines. Head gasket problems can be caused by neglected antifreeze, which seeps into headbolt holds and weakens the threads. Eventually, this causes the bolts to pull. As like any other engine, the better it's maintained greater chances it will last. However, pay particular attention to antifreeze. You may want to bring an antifreeze tester with you. While not a foolproof method of determining quality of maintenance, however, if the antifreeze has been neglected I would suggest not buying the car.

Check for trouble codes by simultaneously pressing and holding for about 4 seconds both the OFF and WARMER buttons on the Climate Control panel. Once the DIC blinks indicating the PCM has entered the diagnostic mode release the buttons. If there are codes write them down and find out what they mean. This is the best way to determine whether the car has existing problems.

Posted by: OldRelayer

Thanks guys for the informative posts.

I guess it would have been smarter to ask these questions before we bought the car, which we had already done before I posted.

"I've seen TONS of N*'s w/ the T-Stat gutted out for early signs of head gaskets. 2 8mm bolts will allow you to see what's going on in there."

Not sure what the above statement means, how is this process done?

I am not afraid of ball joints, especially with our Maine roads, I have had to change them often on all my Marks. The engine doesn't appear to have any oil leaks, if it did, what would be the likely cause, I hate oil leaks of any kind and always think that cars that have them just have lazy owners, but I could be wrong.

Thanks Mac for the tip on the diagnostic, I certainly didn't know that. I would obviously love to get the kind of mileage you are getting from yours. The car seems like it has been cared for, but I will know more when I have my guy take a look at it, even 150K would get us about 5 years but I sure would like more. It is mostly going to be used in the winter, we store the Mark from Nov 1 to April 30.

So if I understand the problem with the head gasket, it is where the bolts are screwed into that fails, therefore there is no way around fixing it short of buying a short block?

One thing that does bother me and I hope it is just a case of the owner not knowing any better, the tires were underated, the plaque calls for H rated tires and there are T's on it (which really are horrible). The tires are pretty worn although took a sticker evidently. The other thing about the tires that I didn't like is they are directional and some of the tires are on wrong, this disturbs me. Could be they just brought it to a cheap tire place that didn't know what they are doing or it could indicate a much bigger problem, don't know yet. In any event I ordered some Traction T/A's V rated, they will be in Friday.

My wife (the primary driver) loves the car, so even if we can eek 50 Kmiles out of it I will be happy, over 200K like Mac and we will be delighted. It was the kind of car we were looking for, and in that price range it is difficult to find something, I didn't want to spend a lot for a winter car, or any car for that matter. But I don't mind spending a few dollars to stay ahead of problems, one thing I don't need is my wife stranded somewhere.

I will try the diagnostic and have my mechanic take a look at the car in general, but people of this site are more familiar with the car than he is, we don't see that many in these parts.

Thanks for your help
Barry

Posted by: MAC1

Quote:

I am not afraid of ball joints, especially with our Maine roads, I have had to change them often on all my Marks. The engine doesn't appear to have any oil leaks, if it did, what would be the likely cause, I hate oil leaks of any kind and always think that cars that have them just have lazy owners, but I could be wrong.

Just make sure the ball joints are lubed and they should last a long time. I suggest buying high quality lube such as Lucas’s X-TRA Heavy Duty grease. It’s primarily for bearings because it has excellent high and low temperature resistance, water resistance, and resists pressure, but it can be used for ball joints as well. If you have to replace the ball joints it isn’t going to be a picnic. I believe your ‘97 will be like my ’94, which means the ball joints are secured by 3, ½-inch rivets. They will have to be drilled out with a cobalt and/or titanium drill bit. The new ball joint will come with three bolts and nuts to replace the rivets. I replaced my ball joint and it took three to four hours mainly because I was not experienced at replacing riveted ball joints.

Quote:

Thanks Mac for the tip on the diagnostic, I certainly didn't know that. I would obviously love to get the kind of mileage you are getting from yours. The car seems like it has been cared for, but I will know more when I have my guy take a look at it, even 150K would get us about 5 years but I sure would like more. It is mostly going to be used in the winter, we store the Mark from Nov 1 to April 30.

If the car was well taken care of odds are you will get well over 150K miles. In fact, the Northstar’s first maintenance is at 100K. However, since your Eldorado already has over 100K just beware that there is likely going to be at least some maintenance in the not too distant future. Hopefully, nothing major.

Quote:

So if I understand the problem with the head gasket, it is where the bolts are screwed into that fails, therefore there is no way around fixing it short of buying a short block?

Threads will deteriorate if coolant is neglected, which will eventually cause the bolts to loosen. That is why I stressed making sure coolant is in good shape and why it would be best to replace the coolant if you don’t know the last time it was changed. It’s better safe then sorry, especially when it will cost upwards of $3,000 to replace both head gaskets, which leads to your question regarding a short block.

When head gaskets fail in a Northstar engine the remedy is to Time-Sert the block, which is the practice of drilling out the thread holes in the block and inserting time-serts. Time-serts are similar to a heli-coil except they are stronger and were specifically designed for the Northstar engine. Click on the link above for more information about time-serting.

Quote:

One thing that does bother me and I hope it is just a case of the owner not knowing any better, the tires were underated, the plaque calls for H rated tires and there are T's on it (which really are horrible). The tires are pretty worn although took a sticker evidently. The other thing about the tires that I didn't like is they are directional and some of the tires are on wrong, this disturbs me. Could be they just brought it to a cheap tire place that didn't know what they are doing or it could indicate a much bigger problem, don't know yet. In any event I ordered some Traction T/A's V rated, they will be in Friday.

The sticker I presume you found on the driver’s side door specifying the tire rating as “H” is not meant as the minimum tire rating allowed. The tire rating on the door sticker simply indicates what tires where mounted on the vehicle at the factory. That rating will also tell you if your Eldorado has speed-limiter, which will prevent the vehicle from going over a certain speed. If “H” is your factory tire rating then your speed-limiter is set for a maximum speed of 130mph. Once your Eldorado reaches 130mph the speed-limiter will cut off fuel preventing higher speed. If you saw a “Z” rating that would mean there is no speed-limiter, therefore your Eldorado would be able to reach top-end which is over 150mph.

Quote:

My wife (the primary driver) loves the car, so even if we can eek 50 Kmiles out of it I will be happy, over 200K like Mac and we will be delighted. It was the kind of car we were looking for, and in that price range it is difficult to find something, I didn't want to spend a lot for a winter car, or any car for that matter. But I don't mind spending a few dollars to stay ahead of problems, one thing I don't need is my wife stranded somewhere.

Of course, no one can guarantee that your wife won’t get stranded. However, I strongly suggest you make sure she has flares (and that she knows how to use them) and/or a good emergency light that is bright enough to warn oncoming cars should she be stuck in a dangerous area, as well as a good fire extinguisher (if possible, put it where she can reach it from the driver’s seat).

If your really concerned, I suggest purchasing a AAA Platinum membership. However, a AAA membership is kind of give and take so to speak in that it can cost more than a tow. If you believe the car is about to give out for some reason, it might then be best to buy a AAA Platinum membership which will give you up to 100 miles of free towing.

Quote:

I will try the diagnostic and have my mechanic take a look at the car in general, but people of this site are more familiar with the car than he is, we don't see that many in these parts.

If your mechanic finds any codes feel free to post them.

Posted by: OldRelayer

Thanks for the great information. There were no codes, sounds like good news, a very nice thing to know, that is how to get the codes. Got the tires and had them mounted and balanced, quite an improvement, still doesn't have quite the road feel or hold the road as well as the Mark but quite acceptable at 85 for my test. I had them check the ball joints, apparently they are original, I was quite surprized and also they are tight, a good thing means to me that the car hasn't been driven hard. Actually everything seems to lead to a conclusion that the car had been very well cared for. I didn't have them check the coolant, but will be back to the dealer next Wednesday, will have them do it and will probably take your advise and have it changed, better to spend a little to save a lot. 130 is just fine, it would be a very rare thing for us to drive faster than 80 or so and for the most part about 70 on the highway. My wife who is the principal driver really likes the car, if we can get the kind of mileage you are getting we will be very happy indeed. Thank you both for your help.

Barry

Posted by: ALBUNDY

The coolant supplement pellets won't prevent a HG if its going to fail they are installed into the cooling systems to seal up any minor coolant leaks or seepage due to gasket imperfections, minor casting porosity, imperfect sealing at hose connections etc.. It should be listed in your owners manuel to add whenever you change the coolant. If you know the previous owner ask him when the coolant was last changed and if the tabs were added. Coolant system matinance if a major factor in the longevity of the N*. MAC1 covered pretty much everything except the notorius trunk leak. Check your truck were the spare is and see if there is any water in the well.

Posted by: OldRelayer

I don't have the actually maintenance slips, although the dealer had them, that stated the radiator and AC compressor had been replaced. I assume the coolant was replaced when the raditor was changed, but who knows until I see the slip. Why he didn't put them in the glove box, I don't know. I will be going there tomorrow so I will ask him for them, I do have the name of the previous owner, I really should call him and get as much information as I can.

Indeed, there is water in the trunk. The dealer pointed it out infact and said the previous owner had people in the trunk under pressure trying to find it. What is the cause of the leak and how is it fixed? I assume this will eventually rot out the metal under the spare if left un checked.

The car does go better now that it has some decent tires, but frankly it doesn't have the handling characteristics of the Mark. I know this site is always a place to compare Lincoln to Cadillac, and I never owned both before. I miss a lot of things. The seat doesn't go forward when you go to the back seat, as soon as you bring the upper part of the seat forward the whole seat moves forward, a great feature. The real keyless entry. We always have just left the keys in the console and used the keypad to get in. But most of all it is front drive verses rear drive. Of course the whole reason the Mark gets stored for the winter is it just doesn't go in the snow and the Eldorado should, but on summer roads, the Mark wins hands down, just a much more capable car when it comes to handling and holding the road. None of this has anything to do with my original post, but I thought I would throw that in. Having said all of that, the Eldorado is going to make a great winter car, we don't give up much and I am looking for great things from it, in the show and ice that would never be possible even with 4 studded snows on the Mark.

Thanks
Barry

Posted by: MAC1

I want to amend something I said regarding head bolts pulling. There has been some debate on whether head bolts in Northstar engines are subject to pulling. I have seen one view that neglected antifreeze can seep into head bolt holes and cause threads to deteriorate. Whether this is true, I don't know for sure.

However, the Guru, as we called him (who is a GM Northstar engineer), refuted the head bolt pulling theory and instead stated that blown head gaskets are generally caused by neglected antifreeze which can eventually eat away at the head gasket which in turn can cause head gaskets to blow rather than bolts pulling. I tend to think that based on what the Guru has said that head bolts do not pull. In fact, the older the Northstar the more likely that bolts will bond or lock with the aluminum block--The Guru called this "galvanic activity." Again, this is why it is very important to service the cooling system at least as recommended by GM. Do not neglect antifreeze!