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She really was a traitor

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Posted by: Vitas

Received in an e-mail from a dear friend, sorry, no link.
========================================

"She really was a traitor

A TRAITOR IS ABOUT TO BE HONORED
KEEP THIS MOVING ACROSS AMERICA

This is for all the kids born in the 70's who do
not remember, and didn't have to bear the
burden that our fathers, mothers and older
brothers and sisters had to bear.

Jane Fonda is being honored as one of the
"100 Women of the Century."

BY BARBRA WALTERS

Unfortunately, many have forgotten and still
countless others have never known how Ms.
Fonda betrayed not only the idea of our country,
but specific men who served and sacrificed
during Vietnam .

The first part of this is from an F-4E pilot

The pilot's name is Jerry Driscoll, a River Rat.

In 1968, the former Commandant of the USAF
Survival School was a POW in Ho Lo Prison
the "Hanoi Hilton."

Dragged from a stinking cesspit of a cell,
cleaned, fed, and dressed in clean PJ's, he was
ordered to describe for a visiting American
"Peace Activist" the "lenient and humane
treatment" he'd received.

He spat at Ms. Fonda, was clubbed, and was
dragged away.
During the subsequent beating, he fell forward
on to the camp Commandant 's feet, which
sent that officer berserk.

In 1978, the Air Force Colonel still suffered from
double vision (which permanently ended his
flying career) from the Commandant's frenzied
application of a wooden baton.

From 1963-65, Col. Larry Carrigan was in the
47FW/DO (F-4E's). He spent 6 years in the
"Hanoi Hilton",,, the first three of which his
family only knew he was "missing in action".
His wife lived on faith that he was still alive.
His group, too, got the cleaned-up, fed and
clothed routine in preparation for a
"peace delegation" visit.
They, however, had time and devised a plan to
get word to the world that they were alive
and still survived. Each man secreted a tiny
piece of paper, with his Social Security Number
on it, in the palm of his hand.

When paraded before Ms. Fonda and a
cameraman, she walked the line, shaking each
man's hand and asking little encouraging
snippets like: "Aren't you sorry you bombed
babies?" and "Are you grateful for the humane
treatment from your benevolent captors?"
Believing this HAD to be an act, they each
palmed her their sliver of paper.
She took them all without missing a beat. At the
end of the line and once the camera stopped
rolling, to the shocked disbelief of the POWs,
she turned to the officer in charge and handed
him all the little pieces of paper.

Three men died from the subsequent beatings.
Colonel Carrigan was almost number four
but he survived, which is the only reason we
know of her actions that day.

I was a civilian economic development advisor
in Vietnam , and was captured by the North
Vietnamese communists in South Vietnam in
1968, and held prisoner for over 5 years.

I spent 27 months in solitary confinement; one
year in a cage in Cambodia ; and one year
in a "black box" in Hanoi .
My North Vietnamese captors deliberately
poisoned and murdered a female missionary, a
nurse in a leprosarium in Ban me Thuot, South
Vietnam , whom I buried in the jungle near the
Cambodian border.
At one time, I weighed only about 90 lbs.
(My normal weight is 170 lbs.)

We were Jane Fonda's "war criminals."

When Jane Fonda was in Hanoi , I was asked by
the camp communist political officer if I would
be willing to meet with her.

I said yes, for I wanted to tell her about the real
treatment we POWs received... and how
different it was from the treatment purported by
the North Vietnamese, and parroted by her as
"humane and lenient."

Because of this, I spent three days on a rocky
floor on my knees, with my arms outstretched
with a large steel weights placed on my hands,
and beaten with a bamboo cane.

I had the opportunity to meet with Jane Fonda
soon after I was released. I asked her
if she would be willing to debate me on TV.
She never did answer me.

These first-hand experiences do not exemplify
someone who should be honored as part
of "100 Years of Great Women."
Lest we forget..." 100 Years of Great Women"
should never include a traitor whose hands are
covered with the blood of so many patriots.

There are few things I have strong visceral
reactions to, but Hanoi Jane's participation in
blatant treason, is one of them.
Please take the time to forward to as many
people as you possibly can.
It will eventually end up on her computer and
she needs to know that we will never forget.

RONALD D. SAMPSON, CMSgt, USAF

PLEASE HELP BY SENDING THIS TO
EVERYONE IN YOUR ADDRESS BOOK. IF
ENOUGH PEOPLE SEE THIS MAYBE HER
STATUS WILL CHANGE"

Posted by: Marcus

Rule of thumb: NEVER EVER BELIEVE those stories that you get in an email. They're 99.9999% bullsh!t. This particular one has been going around the internet for years. They just updated it to include the part about Barbara Walters. While there are one or two things that are not disputed in it, most of it has been debunked long ago BY THE ACTUAL MEN MENTIONED IN IT.

I've got no love for Fonda, and I know she did some really terrible things that she has never answered for, but let's not perpetuate myths by repeating these falsehoods.

http://www.snopes.com/military/fonda.asp

An excerpt:

The most serious accusations in the piece quoted above, that Fonda turned over slips of paper furtively given her by American POWs to the North Vietnamese and that several POWs were beaten to death as a result, are untrue. Those named in the inflammatory e-mail have repeatedly and categorically denied the events they supposedly were part of.

"It's a figment of somebody's imagination," says Ret. Col. Larry Carrigan, one of the servicemen mentioned in the 'slips of paper' incident. Carrigan was shot down over North Vietnam in 1967 and did spend time in a POW camp. He has no idea why the story was attributed to him, saying, "I never met Jane Fonda." In 2005, the Minneapolis Star Tribune reported that Carrigan "is so tired of having to repeat that he wasn't beaten after Fonda's visit and that there were no beating deaths at that time that he won't talk to the media anymore."

The tale about a defiant serviceman who spit at Jane Fonda and is severely beaten as a result is often attributed to Air Force pilot Jerry Driscoll. He has also repeatedly stated on the record that it did not originate with him:

Driscoll said he never met Fonda, as the e-mail claims — and therefore, never spit on her and didn't suffer permanent double vision from a subsequent beating. "Totally false. It did not happen," Driscoll said.

"I don't know who came up with [my] name. The trouble that individual has caused me!" he said, referring to the time he has spent repeatedly denying the persistent myth.

Mike McGrath, President of NAM-POWs, has also stepped forward to disclaim the story:

Please excuse the generic response, but I have been swamped with so many e-mails on the subject of the Jane Fonda article (Carrigan, Driscoll, strips of paper, torture and deaths of POWs, etc.) that I have to resort to this pre-scripted rebuttal. The truth is that most of this never happened. This is a hoax story placed on the internet by unknown Fonda haters. No one knows who initiated the story. Please assist by not propagating the story. Fonda did enough bad things to assure her a correct place in the garbage dumps of history. We don't want to be party to false stories, which could be used as an excuse that her real actions didn't really happen either. I have spoken with all the parties named: Carrigan, Driscoll, et al. They all state that this particular internet story is a hoax and they wish to disassociate their names from the false story.

Despite the claims of hundreds of Vietnam veterans who maintain they were "there" and can affirm these tales as true, Jane Fonda actually met with only a handful of American POWs in North Vietnam, and even they have spoken out on the record to disclaim the story:

"The whole [e-mail] story about Jane Fonda is just malarkey," said Edison Miller, 73, of California, a former Marine Corps pilot held more than five years. Miller was among seven POWs who met with Fonda in Hanoi. He said he didn't recall her asking any questions other than about their names, if that. He said that he passed her no piece of paper, and that to his knowledge, no other POW in the group did, despite the e-mail's claims.

In fact, Fonda carried home letters from many American POWs to their families upon her return from North Vietnam.

The source of the story about a prisoner forced to kneel on rocky ground while holding a piece of steel rebar in his outstretched arms still affirms that account as true, though. Michael Benge was a senior agro-forestry officer with the U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID) who was working in South Vietnam when he was captured by the Viet Cong in 1968 and held prisoner for five years:

He was at a Hanoi prison in 1972 when a political officer he hadn't seen before asked whether he would like to meet Fonda. "I said yes," he wrote in a 1999 letter that protested the Fonda honors, "for I would like to tell her about the real treatment we POWs received and how different it was from the treatment purported by the North Vietnamese."

Benge said he doesn't know who pilfered his story from his letter and attached it to the Carrigan and Driscoll fictions.

In the 1972 incident, "I think I had maybe a little smarter-than-the-average bear [political officer] who knew I was being cynical," Benge said recently. Benge said he spent the next three days kneeling on a rocky floor with a steel bar on his outstretched hands. Whenever his arms dipped, he was struck with a bamboo cane, he said.

North Vietnamese guards might be the only people able to verify Benge's torture account independently. But, McGrath said, Benge's account is "consistent with [North] Vietnamese policy and conduct about people who didn't cooperate."

Benge's original statement, titled "Shame on Jane," was published in April by the Advocacy and Intelligence Network for POWs and MIAs. The unknown author of the "Hanoi Jane" e-mail appears to have picked up Benge's story online and combined it with fabricated tales to create the forwarded text. Some versions now circulate with Benge's name listed; others quote his statement anonymously.

Posted by: Sergmark

That woman must have been on drugs !!

Posted by: Vitas

Quote:

Originally Posted by TommyB

Rule of thumb: NEVER EVER BELIEVE those stories that you get in an email. They're 99.9999% bullsh!t. This particular one has been going around the internet for years. They just updated it to include the part about Barbara Walters. While there are one or two things that are not disputed in it, most of it has been debunked long ago BY THE ACTUAL MEN MENTIONED IN IT.

I've got no love for Fonda, and I know she did some really terrible things that she has never answered for, but let's not perpetuate myths by repeating these falsehoods.

http://www.snopes.com/military/fonda.asp

I don't see RONALD D. SAMPSON, CMSgt, USAF being "snopes"ed here. Do you?

Posted by: Marcus

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vitas

I don't see RONALD D. SAMPSON, CMSgt, USAF being "snopes"ed here. Do you?

No, but he doesn't claim to have had any first-hand experience with the story. It's just the name that appears as the author of the piece.

Why don't you call him up and ask him? Oops, no area code. How convenient.

P.S. The "100 Women of the Century" award was in 1999.

Posted by: Vitas

Quote:

Originally Posted by TommyB

No, but he doesn't claim to have had any first-hand experience with the story. It's just the name that appears as the author of the piece...

It appears to be, without a doubt, HIS story, from first hand experience.

Posted by: Marcus

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vitas

It appears to be, without a doubt, HIS story, from first hand experience.

Huh? He describes the stories of other men. Not one of the stories is one he claims to have experienced personally. Besides the last one, all the men who are mentioned deny that it happened! And the last guy only says that he was beaten because he agreed to meet her but that someone thought he was going to tell her about the abuse. But he never met her. If he'd agreed to meet any diplomat or reporter it would have been the same.

The sad thing is that the men who are mentioned in the story decry the email because of the hell they've had to go through to debunk it! The REAL author of this ought to be shot!

Posted by: Vitas

Quote:

Originally Posted by TommyB

Huh?

"I was a civilian economic development advisor
in Vietnam , and was captured by the North
Vietnamese communists in South Vietnam in
1968, and held prisoner for over 5 years.

I spent 27 months in solitary confinement; one
year in a cage in Cambodia ; and one year
in a "black box" in Hanoi .
My North Vietnamese captors deliberately
poisoned and murdered a female missionary, a
nurse in a leprosarium in Ban me Thuot, South
Vietnam , whom I buried in the jungle near the
Cambodian border.
At one time, I weighed only about 90 lbs.
(My normal weight is 170 lbs.) ...

I said yes, for I wanted to tell her about the real
treatment we POWs received... and how
different it was from the treatment purported by
the North Vietnamese, and parroted by her as
"humane and lenient."

Because of this, I spent three days on a rocky
floor on my knees, with my arms outstretched
with a large steel weights placed on my hands,
and beaten with a bamboo cane.

I had the opportunity to meet with Jane Fonda
soon after I was released. I asked her
if she would be willing to debate me on TV.
She never did answer me.,,,

There are few things I have strong visceral
reactions to, but Hanoi Jane's participation in
blatant treason, is one of them.
Please take the time to forward to as many
people as you possibly can.
It will eventually end up on her computer and
she needs to know that we will never forget."

He says "I," you say he was not there. Bring some proof, and we will look at it.

Posted by: Marcus

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vitas

He says "I," you say he was not there. Bring some proof, and we will look at it.

You are correct. My mistake. However...

From the Snopes article:

Quote:

The source of the story about a prisoner forced to kneel on rocky ground while holding a piece of steel rebar in his outstretched arms still affirms that account as true, though. Michael Benge was a senior agro-forestry officer with the U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID) who was working in South Vietnam when he was captured by the Viet Cong in 1968 and held prisoner for five years:

He was at a Hanoi prison in 1972 when a political officer he hadn't seen before asked whether he would like to meet Fonda. "I said yes," he wrote in a 1999 letter that protested the Fonda honors, "for I would like to tell her about the real treatment we POWs received and how different it was from the treatment purported by the North Vietnamese."

Benge said he doesn't know who pilfered his story from his letter and attached it to the Carrigan and Driscoll fictions.

In the 1972 incident, "I think I had maybe a little smarter-than-the-average bear [political officer] who knew I was being cynical," Benge said recently. Benge said he spent the next three days kneeling on a rocky floor with a steel bar on his outstretched hands. Whenever his arms dipped, he was struck with a bamboo cane, he said.

North Vietnamese guards might be the only people able to verify Benge's torture account independently. But, McGrath said, Benge's account is "consistent with [North] Vietnamese policy and conduct about people who didn't cooperate."

Benge's original statement, titled "Shame on Jane," was published in April by the Advocacy and Intelligence Network for POWs and MIAs. The unknown author of the "Hanoi Jane" e-mail appears to have picked up Benge's story online and combined it with fabricated tales to create the forwarded text. Some versions now circulate with Benge's name listed; others quote his statement anonymously.

Yes, that last part of the email is a true story. But it DID NOT happen to RONALD D. SAMPSON, CMSgt, USAF, the supposed author of the story, it happened to Michael Benge. The rest of the email is BS, the real author unknown. Even Benge himself says the rest of the email is BS.

Posted by: Marcus

Don't believe me? Here's a 1999 article from your very own right-wing WorldNetDaily from a columnist that fell for the very same story and later apologized for it:

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=15757

Posted by: evillally

Regardless of whether or not the solider story is true, pictures are worth a thousand words:

Quote:

Originally Posted by United States Constitution; Article 3, Section 3:

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.

Posted by: Vitas

Quote:

Originally Posted by TommyB

So you think that Jane Fonda is a hero? You tell us. Maybe, or maybe not my original post may or may not be accurate, what is the bottom line for you?

Posted by: Marcus

All I want to convey here is that there is no need to resort to blatant untruths in order to condemn her for what she did. I'm NOT defending her, just setting the record straight.

EDIT (after I read the last post): I DO NOT consider her a hero!

Posted by: Vitas

Quote:

Originally Posted by TommyB

All I want to convey here is that there is no need to resort to blatant untruths in order to condemn her for what she did. I'm NOT defending her, just setting the record straight.

So she simply was inappropriate in her actions?

Quote:

Originally Posted by TommyB

I've got no love for Fonda, and I know she did some really terrible things that she has never answered for, but let's not perpetuate myths by repeating these falsehoods...

Posted by: Marcus

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vitas

So she simply was inappropriate in her actions?

Alright you twit, let me make this perfectly clear: The bitch betrayed her countrymen by the sh!t she did. There is PLENTY that we know she DID do, so there is no reason to add false stories to trump up the charges. The lies only add confusion and doubt about the thing things she did do, and it has clearly caused pain and grief to the men who's stories were fabricated. I get the impression that you think it's perfectly okay to embellish and make up additional stories about her simply because she's such a terrible person to begin with. If it is okay, why stop there? Let me try one: I heard she personally executed 28 POWs and gave the VC officers blowjobs afterwards.

Happy now?

Posted by: Vitas

Quote:

Originally Posted by TommyB

Alright you twit, let me make this perfectly clear:
Happy now?

I have evoked a response from you. It is somewhat of a shame for you that you need to express yourself in that manner, but it is no surprise.

Posted by: Marcus

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vitas

I have evoked a response from you. It is somewhat of a shame, for you, that you need to express yourself in that manner, but it is no surprise.

Asking me if I considered Fonda a hero or if she was only being "inappropriate", when no reasonable person would infer that from my posts, evoked a response, yes. You were clearly trying to evoke such a response, and you got it. You win. Happy yet? Or do we need to go for another round?

Posted by: Vitas

Quote:

Originally Posted by TommyB

Well, let's put it this way. I copied part of the original e-mail sent to me and did a google search, and found nothing.

You have a point that Jane should not be tried for more than she did. On the other hand, she was just plain bad. I will not in a heartbeat ever try to look to defend her actions.

Posted by: fossten

Quote:

Originally Posted by TommyB

You know, Tommy, normally I would jump all over the chance to point out a lib on this board who's resorted to name-calling. However, seeing that it is Vitas, and reading the exchange in this thread, I say with all sincerity that I don't blame you one bit. I know exactly how you feel.

I think we shall call this the Vitas Exception.

And yes, Vitas, I opened my fat mouth once again. So what.

Posted by: bufordtpisser

Quote:

Originally Posted by TommyB

especially against the likes of Vitas. You stated your case, and very eloquently I might add. You never stated or inferred that Fonda was anything but what she was, and that is a traitor. You do not need to defend yourself against people who are trying to twist your post to glorify themselves. The self aggrandizement by Vitas and his minions are well known on this board. Just ignore him, he eventually goes away and hides back under his pet rock until another tasty tidbit floats by that he thinks he can get mileage from. You should be commended for at least pointing out the falsities of that e-mail without defending anything that Fonda actually did do wrong.

Posted by: Vitas

When someone responds that the e-mail I forwarded is 99.9999% bullsh!t, while at the same time telling me that he has “no love for Fonda”, I automatically question the proponent’s statements. Don’t try to hug me; go hug a tree.

In the words of Jon Dougherty “Words cannot describe how sorry I am for passing on information in a column that turned out only to be partially correct.”

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=15757

The e-mail was “99.9999% bullsh!t” according to the proponent, but only “partially (in) - correct” according to Dougherty.

Don’t tell us that you have no love for Jane Fonda, and then ignore what she has in fact done, as is essentially outlined in the e-mail.

EOS

Posted by: TheDude

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vitas

When someone responds that the e-mail I forwarded is 99.9999% bullsh!t, while at the same time telling me that he has “no love for Fonda”, I automatically question the proponent’s statements. Don’t try to hug me; go hug a tree.

In the words of Jon Dougherty “Words cannot describe how sorry I am for passing on information in a column that turned out only to be partially correct.”

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=15757

The e-mail was “99.9999% bullsh!t” according to the proponent, but only “partially (in) - correct” according to Dougherty.

Don’t tell us that you have no love for Jane Fonda, and then ignore what she has in fact done, as is essentially outlined in the e-mail.

EOS

I love Jane Fonda in "Barbarella"

Posted by: FreeFaller

CLARIFICATION:

CMSgt Sampson is an Active Duty member of the 716th Maintenance Sq. out of Hurlburt Field FL. The appearance of his name and information is not a portion of the story but rather a "signature" that all military to military e-mails contain to indentify the sender and provide contact information. This "sig" is automatically attached to any outgoing e-mail. Therefore Chief Sampson is not attempting to claim authorship or first hand knowlege of the story...he simply hit "Forward"

Also the lack of any sort of area code is due to the fact that the number given is a phone number in the Defense Switching Network (DSN) and does not require an area code.

NOTE TO STAFF: Please remove all contact information contained in the first post as this information is personal and not intended for widespread distribution.

Edit: DONE...Thanks for pointing it out.

Steven P. Richardson, SSGT, USAF
HQ Air Mobility Command, Scott AFB IL