Lincoln vs Cadillac Forums

(This is the forums archive - If you want to get back to the main site simply click the banner above and you will be taken to our homepage.)

Lincoln vs Cadillac Forums is the Ultimate Online Resource for Owners and Enthusiasts of American Luxury Cars. Feel free to browse through our archive - but make sure you make it back to our main site - Lincoln vs Cadillac Forums

Cadillac XLR : Cadillac CTS : Cadillac : 2005 Cadillac STS : Cadillac Forums : 2000 Lincoln LS : Lincoln Mark VIII : Lincoln Mark VII : Car Wax
Lincoln Town Car : Lincoln Air Suspension : Lincoln Continental : Lemon Law : Do It Yourself Car Repair : Lincoln vs Cadillac Forums : Mesothelioma

Back to the Archive Main Page

Pages: 1

"Latest Bush Excuse on Weapons Dump Evaporates"

(Click here to view the original thread with full colors/images)

Posted by: 97silverlsc

Latest Bush Excuse on Weapons Dump Evaporates

A BUZZFLASH NEWS ALERT

From the Kerry-Edwards Campaign:

George Bush's continuing efforts to avoid responsibility for failing to secure 380 tons of highly dangerous explosives in Iraq just took another blow. The reporter who was actually traveling with the 101st Airborne in the report cited by the Bush campaign has clarified that the unit was not there to secure the massive weapons complex and it was merely a 'pit stop' on their way to Baghdad.

Try as it might, the Bush spin machine can not change the truth: the President is responsible for his catastrophic failures in Iraq and needs to personally address this issue.

LINK TO VIDEO

MSNBC, 10/26/04 (Transcript):

Amy Robach: And it's still unclear exactly when those explosives disappeared. Here to help shed some light on that question is Lai Ling. She was part of an NBC news crew that traveled to that facility with the 101st Airborne Division back in April of 2003. Lai Ling, can you set the stage for us? What was the situation like when you went into the area?

Lai Ling Jew: When we went into the area, we were actually leaving Karbala and we were initially heading to Baghdad with the 101st Airborne, Second Brigade. The situation in Baghdad, the Third Infantry Division had taken over Baghdad and so they were trying to carve up the area that the 101st Airborne Division would be in charge of. As a result, they had trouble figuring out who was going to take up what piece of Baghdad. They sent us over to this area in Iskanderia. We didn't know it as the Qaqaa facility at that point but when they did bring us over there we stayed there for quite a while. We stayed overnight, almost 24 hours. And we walked around, we saw the bunkers that had been bombed, and that exposed all of the ordinances that just lied dormant on the desert.

AR: Was there a search at all underway or did a search ensue for explosives once you got there during that 24-hour period?

LLJ: No. There wasn't a search. The mission that the brigade had was to get to Baghdad. That was more of a pit stop there for us. And, you know, the searching, I mean certainly some of the soldiers head off on their own, looked through the bunkers just to look at the vast amount of ordnance lying around. But as far as we could tell, there was no move to secure the weapons, nothing to keep looters away. But there was ? at that point the roads were shut off. So it would have been very difficult, I believe, for the looters to get there.

AR: And there was no talk of securing the area after you left. There was no discussion of that?

LLJ: Not for the 101st Airborne, Second Brigade. They were -- once they were in Baghdad, it was all about Baghdad, you know, and then they ended up moving north to Mosul. Once we left the area, that was the last that the brigade had anything to do with the area.

AR: Well, Lai Ling Jew, thank you so much for shedding some light into that situation. We appreciate it.

Posted by: MonsterMark

I remember the left bitching that we didn't protect the Museum and the precious paintings and artifacts.

Posted by: MarkOfDeath

Man the democrats are so blinded by the story of the week, True we didnt find any WMD, but then that debate died down. Now its hey the insergents stole exploisves that could make WMD. So they bashed on bush for not finding any weapons, or so they said. now they are bashing on bush because there was weapons maybe the possiblity of WMD.

once again just the story of the week

Posted by: Katshot

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkOfDeath

Man the democrats are so blinded by the story of the week, True we didnt find any WMD, but then that debate died down. Now its hey the insergents stole exploisves that could make WMD. So they bashed on bush for not finding any weapons, or so they said. now they are bashing on bush because there was weapons maybe the possiblity of WMD.

once again just the story of the week

Nice try. The point was that we didn't find the WMD that Bush SWORE was there, and at the same time managed to lose the ones that we KNEW were there.

Posted by: barry2952

Touche'!

Posted by: MarkOfDeath

they might not be the WMD we were looking for but Im damn sure saddam had the HMX for WMD.

Posted by: MonsterMark

Touche'!

Posted by: Katshot

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkOfDeath

they might not be the WMD we were looking for but Im damn sure saddam had the HMX for WMD.

And your point is.........
Yeah, we NEEDED to invade the country to control weapons we ALREADY controlled. Come on, you gotta do better than that.

Posted by: MonsterMark

Gee Kev, Guess not.

GERTZ // THURSDAY // WASH TIMES: Russian special forces troops moved many of Saddam Hussein's weapons and related goods out of Iraq and into Syria in the weeks before the March 2003 U.S. military operation, The Washington Times has learned. John A. Shaw, the deputy undersecretary of defense for international technology security, said in an interview that he believes the Russian troops, working with Iraqi intelligence, “almost certainly” removed the high-explosive material that went missing from the Al-Qaqaa facility, south of Baghdad.

Kerry is going to look pretty sad tomorrow. He is still lying about the explosives to day. What a schmuck.

Now we proof why the Frenchies, Germans and Ruskies did not support getting rid of Saddam.

Doesn't the left ever get sick of being wrong?

AGAIN!

Posted by: MarkOfDeath

I have been hearing the same, about them being missing before we even sent troops

Posted by: MonsterMark

I mean, what is not to believe. Why can't anyone believe he moved the weapons.

Real simple. I'll splain it for you guys. I'm t a l k i n g r e a l s l o o o w n o w w...

Saddam has WMD. He just needs a little time to finish them up.

Q. Why didn't he use them then?

A: Because he knows we have superior weapons and his using them would have just upped the ante and the world community would have turned against him.

Q: Why did he move them then?

A: Because he knew that they would be consficated and destroyed. The majority of his illegal weapons programs were being conducted out of country anyway and he didn't want to get caught with his hand in the cookie jar.

Q: How come he was able to move them?

A: Because George Bush was forced to pass "a global test" by running to the worthless UN and begging them for permission. Saddam had months to remove whatever he wanted.

Q: So what should we do now?

A: We should march into Syria and seize them. Put them in front of the world to see and then say "I Told You So"!

Q: Why did he have RDX and HMX explosives.

A: Because ever since Saddam lost the '91 Gulf War, he knew his military was impotent against the technology to fight a sand war. A tank sitting in the middle of a desert is nothing more than a clay pigeon. He learned a valuable lesson getting his a$$ handed to him the way he did.

Conclusion: Ever since 1993, Saddam has been on a widespread, ever evolving mission to get his hands on weapons of mass destruction. He understood conventional weapons were worthless and he held no bargaining power with them. All he needed to do was obtain WMD and then he could use the THREAT of using them himself or threaten to give them to terrorists organizations. Or actually give them to terrorists to carry out strategic hits around the world to further the Islamic cause of destroying Democracy.

Unfortunately, I am convinced more than ever that we will have to suffer a nuclear or similar type of devastating attack in order to get you guys to wake up and join the cause of freedom. Right now, you guys are like alcoholics. You're in denial. Unfortunately only 50% of the US population already understands the war we are in. The rest of you need to get hit in the head and punched in the stomach before you will be ready to say to our President and our military; Mr. President, whatever it takes.

Posted by: MonsterMark

And I feel so much better that the IAEA and the UN were guarding these weapons.

I love the word guarding. That would imply that someone (maybe with a gun even) was standing by 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year.

But NOooo. The IAEA's idea of guarding WMD is to put a wire around a door with a fancy little stamped metal piece, that must say something like; please don't tamper with me or I'll tell.

From ABC News: "The documents show IAEA inspectors looked at nine bunkers containing more than 194 tons of HMX at the facility. Although these bunkers were still under IAEA seal, the inspectors said the seals may be potentially ineffective because they had ventilation slats on the sides. These slats could be easily removed to remove the materials inside the bunkers without breaking the seals, the inspectors noted."

Kerry and his supporters are a joke. Plain and simple the way I see it. Black and White. Sorry to be mean-spirited, but you are playing with my life and the lives of my kids by even considering Kerry for CIC and I guess I hold that against you.

I have not heard one of you come out and denounce Kerry for continuing to lie about the missing weapons when the overwhelming evidence indicates something much different than George Bush's arrogance and the ineptitude of our US military.

I salute President Bush for having the courage and moral fiber to face down these insane murderers. Hopefully he gets at least 269 electoral votes and then Mr. Cheney and the rest of the Republican Congress can let George continue our campaign to rid the world of evil.

Posted by: Kbob

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonsterMark

Hopefully he gets at least 269 electoral votes and then Mr. Cheney and the rest of the Republican Congress can let George continue our campaign to rid the world of evil.

Going off-track from the topic of this thread, but that statement brings up a question that I've been wondering about. Looking at my latest Newsweek mag I see that it's quite possible that both Kerry and Bush will both get 269 electoral votes. What will happen if that occurs? Let's assume that after all the court proceedings that the 269 vs. 269 holds. Who would be the next president? How do they (whoever they is) decide? Is there an SOP for this situation? Just curious. That would be a nightmare of course.

Of course I want Bush to win outright on election day with at least 52% of the popular vote. But Kerry winning outright with at least the same percent would be better to me than Bush winning by a long, controversial legal process. Kerry winning by the same process would be #4 on my list of favorable outcomes in the election. But 269 to 269 would be the worst scenario I could think of in regards to election results.

Posted by: Kbob

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kbob

I see that it's quite possible that both Kerry and Bush will both get 269 electoral votes. What will happen if that occurs?

Okay, I just found the answer to my question. If the 269 to 269 happens, then The House of Representatives will vote on the president. But instead of each Representative getting a vote, each STATE gets one vote. So if a state has a majority of let's say Republican Reps, they will most likely vote for Bush, and vice versa if it's a Democratic majority and voting for Kerry. Wouldn't that be a fun time for us here in the U.S.? NOT!!!!

Posted by: 97silverlsc

link to story-http://www.kstp.com/article/stories/S3723.html
Editor's Note | The original link to this KSTP-TV report has a video link at the top which shows the embedded reporters filming the now-disputed explosive materials at the al Qaqaa facility in Iraq. Please go to that page and view the video if you can; bear in mind that it is a Windows Media file and may not play on all computers. You will also have to sit through a short commercial for an SUV. It is well worth your time to do so.

Recall that nearly 400 tons of highly explosive material - the same kind of stuff used to create the Lockerbie airline disaster, and the same kind of stuff used to blow a hole in the USS Cole - went missing after the U.S. invaded Iraq. The explosives have become a campaign issue; John Kerry points to the fact that no troops were used to guard al Qaqaa as an example of Bush administration incompetence in Iraq, while the Bush campaign is attempting to claim that the material had been removed before the invasion. The latest explanation, floated this morning, is that the Russians took it before we came in.

The KSTP video is incredibly important in this context. It shows boxes marked 'al Qaqaa' and 'High Explosives.' It shows 101st Airborne troopers cutting the locks to the facility to get inside. Worse, it shows the KSTP embedded reporters stating flatly that, despite the fact that all these explosives were inside the facility, the place went completely unguarded. - wrp

Eyewitness News Video May Be Linked to Missing Explosives in Iraq
KSTP-TV, Minneapolis/St. Paul

Thursday 28 October 2004

Soldiers who took a 5 EYEWITNESS NEWS crew into bunkers on April 18 said some of the boxes uncovered contained proximity fuses.

A 5 EYEWITNESS NEWS crew in Iraq shortly after the fall of Saddam Hussein was in the area where tons of explosives disappeared, and may have videotaped some of those weapons.

The missing explosives are now an issue in the presidential debate. Democratic candidate John Kerry is accusing President Bush of not securing the site they allegedly disappeared from. President Bush says no one knows if the ammunition was taken before or after the fall of Baghdad on April 9, 2003 when coalition troops moved in to the area.

Using GPS technology and talking with members of the 101st Airborne Division, 5 EYEWITNESS NEWS has determined the crew embedded with the troops may have been on the southern edge of the Al Qaqaa installation, where the ammunition disappeared. The news crew was based just south of Al Qaqaa, and drove two or three miles north of there with soldiers on April 18, 2003.

During that trip, members of the 101st Airborne Division showed the 5 EYEWITNESS NEWS news crew bunker after bunker of material labelled "explosives." Usually it took just the snap of a bolt cutter to get into the bunkers and see the material identified by the 101st as detonation cords.

Soldiers who took a 5 EYEWITNESS NEWS crew into bunkers on April 18 said some of the boxes uncovered contained proximity fuses.

"We can stick it in those and make some good bombs." a soldier told our crew.

There were what appeared to be fuses for bombs. They also found bags of material men from the 101st couldn't identify, but box after box was clearly marked "explosive."

In one bunker, there were boxes marked with the name "Al Qaqaa", the munitions plant where tons of explosives allegedly went missing.

Once the doors to the bunkers were opened, they weren't secured. They were left open when the 5 EYEWITNESS NEWS crew and the military went back to their base.

"We weren't quite sure what were looking at, but we saw so much of it and it didn't appear that this was being secured in any way," said photojournalist Joe Caffrey. "It was several miles away from where military people were staying in their tents".

Soldiers who took a 5 EYEWITNESS NEWS crew into bunkers on April 18 said some of the boxes uncovered contained proximity fuses.

Officers with the 101st Airborne told 5 EYEWITNESS NEWS that the bunkers were within the U.S. military perimeter and protected. But Caffrey and former 5 EYEWITNESS NEWS Reporter Dean Staley, who spent three months together in Iraq, said Iraqis were coming and going freely.

"At one point there was a group of Iraqis driving around in a pick-up truck, "Staley said. "Three or four guys we kept an eye on, worried they might come near us."

On Wednesday, 5 EYEWITNESS NEWS e-mailed still images of the footage taken at the site to experts in Washington to see if the items captured on tape are the same kind of high explosives that went missing in Al Qaqaa. Those experts could not make that determination.

The footage is now in the hands of security experts to see if it is indeed the explosives in question.

Posted by: 97silverlsc

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonsterMark

Kerry and his supporters are a joke. Plain and simple the way I see it. Black and White. Sorry to be mean-spirited, but you are playing with my life and the lives of my kids by even considering Kerry for CIC and I guess I hold that against you.

I have not heard one of you come out and denounce Kerry for continuing to lie about the missing weapons when the overwhelming evidence indicates something much different than George Bush's arrogance and the ineptitude of our US military.

Pull your head out of the sand. Shrub was warned that more troops were needed, but decided to go with the lower estimates presented by his Cronys. Now info comes out about ammunition and explosives stores not being secured properly cause of lack of troops, and the looting of same, thereby giving the insurgents all the explosives they need to roadside bomb and suicide bomb our troops and Iraqi officials/civilians. Kerry is playing with the lives of your kids? The only clueless person I see in this mix Shrub. He started this war without justification. He went with lower troop staffing than was recommended.
His Arrogance and Ineptitude (notice-I don't blaim the US military, cause they take their orders from the CIC) in these and other decisions have left these explosive and ammunition bunkers unguarded, thereby supplying the insurgents.
If this were Clinton making the decisions, you would be in an uproar. And you assume this is all about partisan politics. I will remind you again that I am registered as an independent, and that I voted for reagan both times and GW41 the first time. Shrub is taking this country down a disasterous path. He needs to be gone on 11/2/04.

Posted by: RRocket

Yep..it was there when the US soldiers took control of those ammunition bunkers. Caught on video even. http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/29/po...rint&position=

Posted by: Katshot

What's the matter Bush fans? Cat got your tongue?

Posted by: driller

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonsterMark

...Unfortunately, I am convinced more than ever that we will have to suffer a nuclear or similar type of devastating attack in order to get you guys to wake up and join the cause of freedom. Right now, you guys are like alcoholics. You're in denial. Unfortunately only 50% of the US population already understands the war we are in. The rest of you need to get hit in the head and punched in the stomach before you will be ready to say to our President and our military; Mr. President, whatever it takes.

Sadly, I have reached precisely the same conclusion Bryan.

BTW, the cat doesn't have our tongues. We're getting hoarse trying to shout our warnings over this static.

Mr. President, whatever it takes. I will be there for you on Nov. 2.

Posted by: Katshot

Quote:

Originally Posted by driller

Oh yeah, good come-back. What's that got to do with the question?
Typical Republican answer though.
It's amazing how even when the proof is right in front of you, you still won't admit there's something wrong. Who's in denial here?

Posted by: driller

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katshot

I'm a lot of things, but typical is not one of them.

Proof? That's funny. Evidence is coming out to debunk this whole thing anyways. But that doesn't matter 'cause you won't believe it. That's Ok, as I'm sure you have made your mind up as well as I have.

The campaign finance reform act has failed miserably. Now we have "non-partisan" 527 groups and old stories rehashed as "late breaking news" just days before the election. I find all this last minute fire drill tactics pathetic.

We'll just agree to disagree and move on.

Posted by: Kbob

My hope is that this pathetic attempt to besmirch Bush right before the election will bolster his chances.

Posted by: MonsterMark

The pill is getting getting harder to swallow...

Fox News - U.N. weapons inspectors went repeatedly to the vast al Qa Qaa complex -- most recently on March 8 -- but found nothing during spot visits to some of the 1,100 buildings at the site 25 miles south of Baghdad.

Col. John Peabody, engineer brigade commander of the 3rd Infantry Division, said troops found thousands of 2-by-5-inch boxes, each containing three vials of white powder, together with documents written in Arabic that dealt with how to engage in chemical warfare.

Initial reports suggest the powder is an explosive, but tests are still being done, a senior U.S. official said. If confirmed, it would be consistent with what the Iraqis say is the plant's purpose, producing explosives and propellants.