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Originally Posted by JohnnyBz00LS
Yep, Mr "Axis of Evil" Kim Jong is just "cowering in fear" as a result of the "example we made of Saddam in Iraq", isn't he?
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Originally Posted by MonsterMark
IS that really your take on this???
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Originally Posted by fossten
My take on this is that people like Ahmadinejad and the pot-bellied dictator of DPRK will never acquiesce (see dictionary, libs) to diplomacy. The only thing they will EVER understand is force.
Knowing that, the only reason to use diplomacy is to make sure you have all your bases covered before using force. That way the liberal media and the anti-American Democrats in Congress and the meddling SCOTUS can't say you "rushed to war." Having said that, am I the only one who noticed Johnny's glee at a malevolent country's threatening us with use of force? Could anybody hate this country more than Johnny? |
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Originally Posted by 95DevilleNS
Did you get that off your word of the day calendar? You could have just said submit, comply, go along etc. etc.
No, I did not notice Johnny's glee, also, N. Korea has been shaking a stick at us and flaunting it's nukes for a LONG time now. My take on what Johnny said... He was pointing out the idiocy of people thinking we're safe from the true nut-jobs with nukes because we whopped a wussy (in comparison) Like Saddam. |
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Originally Posted by fossten
Actually, I got the word from the Mike Tyson Vocabulary Builder-Upper Prison Manual.
Well, go look at Johnny's glee. It's obvious unless you're blind. Your last sentence has no basis in fact. There isn't anyone in the administration who thinks that (show evidence, please). Not only that, but to say that Saddam was a wussy compared to Jong-Il is inaccurate in the extreme. Just because we made him look like a pushover doesn't automatically make Jong-Il stronger. It makes US look stronger. Finally, the tolerance of the Clinton administration can be blamed for NK having nukes. ************************************************** ****** From Wikipedia: On March 12, 1993, North Korea said that it planned to withdraw from the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty and refused to allow inspectors access to its nuclear sites. By 1994, the United States believed that North Korea had enough reprocessed plutonium to produce about 10 bombs with the amount of plutonium increasing. Faced with diplomatic pressure and the threat of American military airstrikes against the reactor, North Korea agreed to dismantle its plutonium program as part of the Agreed Framework in which South Korea and the United States would provide North Korea with light water reactors and fuel oil until those reactors could be completed. Because the light water reactors would require enriched uranium to be imported from outside North Korea, the amount of reactor fuel and waste could be more easily tracked, making it more difficult to divert nuclear waste to be reprocessed into plutonium. Enriched uranium However, with the abandonment of its plutonium program, North Korea secretly began an enriched uranium program. Pakistan, through Abdul Qadeer Khan, supplied key technology and information to North Korea in exchange for missile technology around 1997, according to U.S. intelligence officials. This program was publicized in October 2002 when the United States asked North Korean officials about the program, and, according to the U.S., North Korea admitted the existence of the program [2]. According to North Korea, it replied that it is "entitled" to have such a program or "an even more powerful one" to deter a pre-emptive U.S. attack, unless the U.S. agreed to a non-aggression pact. (see below) Although the Agreed Framework specifically prohibited then-existing plutonium programs, not uranium, the U.S. argued North Korea violated the "spirit" of the agreement. In December 2002, the United States terminated the 1994 Agreed Framework, suspending fuel oil shipments. North Korea responded by announcing plans to reactivate a dormant nuclear fuel processing program and power plant north of Pyongyang. North Korea soon thereafter expelled U.N. inspectors and withdrew from the Non-Proliferation Treaty. ![]() |
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Originally Posted by 95DevilleNS
I guess I'm blind, I only see sarcasm in Johnny's statement, not glee. He even used the sarcasm emote... Maybe it's just me?
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How pathetic.|
Originally Posted by fossten
Your last sentence has no basis in fact. There isn't anyone in the administration who thinks that (show evidence, please).
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Originally Posted by 95DevilleNS
He was pointing out the idiocy of people thinking we're safe from the true nut-jobs with nukes because we whopped a wussy (in comparison) Like Saddam.
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Originally Posted by fossten
On March 12, 1993, North Korea said that it planned to withdraw from the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty and refused to allow inspectors access to its nuclear sites.
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Originally Posted by fossten
By 1994, the United States believed that North Korea had enough reprocessed plutonium to produce about 10 bombs with the amount of plutonium increasing. Faced with diplomatic pressure and the threat of American military airstrikes against the reactor, North Korea agreed to dismantle its plutonium program as part of the Agreed Framework in which South Korea and the United States would provide North Korea with light water reactors and fuel oil until those reactors could be completed. Because the light water reactors would require enriched uranium to be imported from outside North Korea, the amount of reactor fuel and waste could be more easily tracked, making it more difficult to divert nuclear waste to be reprocessed into plutonium.
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| DAVID, for you to sit there and claim that the BuSh administration, and nearly EVERY RWW nut job on this board, has NOT time and time again yelled and screamed at the top of their lungs in front of cameras and have been quoted in print that "AMERICA IS SAFER WITH SADDAM REMOVED FROM POWER" is a bald-faced LIE. |
| You are living in DENIAL. You are attempting to revise history. I don't even need to waste my time pulling together the "evidence" you seek because anyone with a brain can read thread after thread, news story after news story and SEE THOSE FACTS. |
| Do us ALL a favor and GO AWAY with your worthless banter and quit wasting bandwidth here. |
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Originally Posted by JohnnyBz00LS
As for your claim of blaming it on Clinton.........
Gee, Clinton was in office for less than 3 months before NK made this move. The momentum of NK's attitude towards us and the rest of the world was started LONG before Clinton took office. |
| Do you even READ what you post?? Oh SNAP! That's RIGHT, you can't comprehend a damn thing you read, whether I or 95DevilleNS or Wikipedia writes it. Clinton DID put pressure on NK, he DIDN'T "roll out the red carpet" for them as you claim. |
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Originally Posted by Calabrio
Iraq was clearly a simplier military target than Iran or Iraq. It had a weakened regime in power, and most important, it was on real estate that is extremely strategically important to access while engaging in a war on terrorism. Korea is standing behind the pant leg of red China and the thousands of year history regarding invasions of South Asian countries doesn't need to be repeated here.
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Originally Posted by JohnnyBz00LS
Gee, Clinton was in office for less than 3 months before NK made this move. The momentum of NK's attitude towards us and the rest of the world was started LONG before Clinton took office.
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Originally Posted by JohnnyBz00LS
Do you even READ what you post?? Oh SNAP! That's RIGHT, you can't comprehend a damn thing you read, whether I or 95DevilleNS or Wikipedia writes it. Clinton DID put pressure on NK, he DIDN'T "roll out the red carpet" for them as you claim.
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Originally Posted by fossten
are getting boring with your personal attacks and ignorance.
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Thanks.
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Originally Posted by MAC1
Jong-Il is looking for attention and I think making too much of his missile launches will just feed his ego and make him feel important when, in fact, he’s just a too bit immature dictator. I sincerely doubt that he’s stupid enough to launch an armed missile towards the U.S. even if he had one since he understands that, if he did, the "good life" would come to a sudden end. He's having too much fun as a gourmet cook, collecting cars, and womanizing to jeopardize his little oasis by foolishly threatening the U.S. with a missile. The bigger problem is his willingness to sell nuclear technology to terrorists and rogue nations like Iran. Jong-Il may be crazy (like a fox), but there are individuals out there that make even him look like the Tooth Fairy.
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Originally Posted by MonsterMark
All you guys with the personal attacks are getting boring. Stick to the arguments. Leave the name calling to the 10 year kids on the playground.
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Originally Posted by fossten
Having said that, am I the only one who noticed Johnny's glee at a malevolent country's threatening us with use of force? Could anybody hate this country more than Johnny?
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Originally Posted by fossten
Baloney. Clinton fell like a sucker for NK lies and deceit and cheating. You must be the only dolt on this planet that doesn't know that NK abrogated the agreement made with the sucker Clinton.
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Originally Posted by JohnnyBz00LS
Nobody here is arguing that Clinton was certainly deceived by NK. But to squarely place the blame for TODAY's situation w/ NK solely on Clinton (as you RWWs do for damn near everything) is disingenuous.
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| Then in '02 when it became obvious NK was a serious nuclear threat, instead of addressing the situation head on, GW Bush bent over and stuck our head in the sand in Iraq and spread our collective a-s-s cheeks wide for NK to rattle their saber at. Now Kim Jong Il has a hard-on at the sight of our pink pucker. |
| George Bush, George Bush, What cha gonna do now? What cha gonna do? |
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Originally Posted by fossten
What we should do is send in a SEAL team and wipe out his missiles on the ground and send a message. He's on the other side of the world. What's he gonna do, threaten us AGAIN? People like him don't understand anything but a punch in the mouth.
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As for "What's he gonna do, threaten us AGAIN?" I think he would. This isn't the first time we've had a problem with this guy. Think about it we are so into Iraq and we aren't pulling out of there anytime soon, now is the prefect time for him to do this kind or sh--. Regardless of who is in office what could we really do right now? Hopefully the UN will be more of a help in trying to control this guy.
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Originally Posted by taylor414ce2003
war and violence has never solved anything in the history of man
ww1 yup sure solved the problem of dictators they can never rise to power ww2 yup those Japs learned from ww1 to not to try to take over the world- they did anyway buy stealing our technolgy and making it better .now we owe them milloins of $s korea- ya we kicked ass overthere now everthing is peacefull vietnam-oh ya that was a police action cant consider it war dessert storm-another asskicking by USA now they all live in peace and harmony in the sand dunes with happy hr every weds nite |
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Originally Posted by JohnnyBz00LS
Nobody here is arguing that Clinton was certainly deceived by NK. But to squarely place the blame for TODAY's situation w/ NK solely on Clinton (as you RWWs do for damn near everthing) is disingenuous. NK entered the nuclear age in the 1980s during the Regan administration, it festered during BuSh I, and Clinton attempted to derail it (but in retrospect failed) in the '90s. Then in '02 when it became obvious NK was a serious nuclear threat, instead of addressing the situation head on, GW Bush bent over and stuck our head in the sand in Iraq and spread our collective a-s-s cheeks wide for NK to rattle their saber at. Now Kim Jong Il has a hard-on at the sight of our pink pucker.
George Bush, George Bush, What cha gonna do now? What cha gonna do? |

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Originally Posted by taylor414ce2003
war and violence has never solved anything in the history of man
ww1 yup sure solved the problem of dictators they can never rise to power ww2 yup those Japs learned from ww1 to not to try to take over the world- they did anyway buy stealing our technolgy and making it better .now we owe them milloins of $s korea- ya we kicked ass overthere now everthing is peacefull vietnam-oh ya that was a police action cant consider it war dessert storm-another asskicking by USA now they all live in peace and harmony in the sand dunes with happy hr every weds nite |
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Originally Posted by 95DevilleNS
Though I see your angle; I have to disagree... War/Violence have solved many many issues for the better. A few examples, American Revolution, made it possible for you to make those comments above. Civil War, ended slavery. WWII, Hitler; need I say more?
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Originally Posted by taylor414ce2003
war and violence has never solved anything in the history of man
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Originally Posted by taylor414ce2003
ww1 yup sure solved the problem of dictators they can never rise to power
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Originally Posted by taylor414ce2003
ww2 yup those Japs learned from ww1 to not to try to take over the world- they did anyway buy stealing our technolgy and making it better .now we owe them milloins of $s
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Originally Posted by taylor414ce2003
korea- ya we kicked ass overthere now everthing is peacefull
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Originally Posted by taylor414ce2003
vietnam-oh ya that was a police action cant consider it war
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Originally Posted by taylor414ce2003
dessert storm-another asskicking by USA now they all live in peace and harmony in the sand dunes with happy hr every weds nite
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Originally Posted by fossten
Wrong again. Clinton KNEW NK would cheat. (check out this archive)
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North Korea's Dangerous Deception Notra Trulock Sunday, Oct. 20, 2002 North Korea has finally admitted that it has been pursuing the development of nuclear weapons despite promises to the contrary. In 1994, in a deal engineered in part by Nobel Peace Prize winner Jimmy Carter, the Clinton administration tried to bribe North Korea into abandoning its nuclear intentions. In return for a pile of cash, an annual supply of fuel oil, and new, supposedly proliferation-resistant nuclear reactors, North Korea agreed to freeze plutonium production at its nuclear facilities north of Pyongyang. [No proof here that Clinton knew NK was going to cheat WHEN he made the agreement with them in '94. The only sin Clinton comitted was trusting NK on their agreement.] The deal became known as the Agreed Framework; but North Korea also promised to remain in the Non-Proliferation Treaty and live up to its obligations under the International Atomic Energy Agreement nuclear safeguards program. In short, the Clinton administration thought it had bought off North Korea. What started as a limited accomplishment would soon be touted as a "major diplomatic success" for an administration short on such successes. Bill Clinton, Madeleine Albright and others also scored it as a major achievement in their campaign to stop the spread of nuclear weapons. [Yeah, SO? At that point in time there was no positive idication that NK had gone back on their word, so why WOULDN'T they put that feather in their cap?] Over the years, the intelligence community raised "concerns" about covert activities in North Korea, but the White House and State Department usually dismissed these as worst-case scenarios based on sketchy evidence. [This was occuring as much while BuSh was in the White House as when Clinton was.] Now the State Department reports that North Korea considers the Agreed Framework "nullified." If true, this suggests some very ominous "worst-case" scenarios largely forgotten or ignored by the media. First, as part of the Agreed Framework, the North Koreans insisted that the U.S. refurbish and preserve a storage pool full of spent fuel rods, recently dumped from its production reactor. Many in the U.S. Energy Department, which eventually cleaned and canned the rods, thought this a bad idea and said so at that time. The White House and State Department, however, were intent on closing the deal and ignored those warnings. [Yep, again the only sin Clinton comitted was trusting NK and making some compromises. Without that provision the A/F would never have been signed by NK. Are you suggesting that no promise is better than a promise?] Should they now opt to reprocess this fuel, Pyongyang would have enough plutonium for about five nuclear warheads, thanks to the Clinton administration and American taxpayers. [Isn't 20/20 hindsight great?] That would be in addition to the plutonium the U.S. judged the North Koreans had produced by 1994, believed to be enough for two, possibly three nuclear warheads. An intelligence community estimate last December strongly implied that North Korea had already fabricated these weapons. At the time of the agreement, there was much concern inside the intelligence community that North Korea would cheat on the deal by pursuing other routes to the development of nuclear warheads. ["Concern" that NK "would cheat" does not constitute knowledge that they WILL cheat.] The alternative to plutonium is highly enriched uranium (HEU), which is most commonly produced using gas centrifuges. In 1999, the Washington Times reported that the North Koreans had tried to buy electrical components for gas centrifuges from Japan, but the sale was blocked. [An attempt to cheat was thwarted at the moat.] Now they have admitted what that suggested – that they had started secretly to produce weapons using highly enriched uranium. The facilities it requires are more easily hidden than the reactors that produce plutonium. The State Department says that it has acquired evidence of North Korea's HEU production only recently. [That would be while BuSh was in office, NOT Clinton.] It is easy to understand why the Clinton administration would try to conceal the fact that the agreement with North Korea was an extremely costly blunder. We have poured $100 million a year in fuel and food into North Korea to keep Kim Jong-il from developing nuclear warheads, all in vain. [No doubt this is embarrasing for Clinton.] The continuation of this largesse in the first two years of the Bush administration raises the question of why it took so long to find that North Korea was cheating. [Gee, PROOF that NK was cheating fell into BUSH's hands, NOT Clintons. So WHAT has BuSh done with that PROOF? Hide behind "six party talks"??] In addition, U.S. diplomats in Pyongyang have been told that North Korea has "more powerful things as well," apparently a reference to its extensive chemical and biological weapons programs. Many suspect that North Korea acquired gas centrifuges from Pakistan as payment for North Korean long-range missiles supplied in the late 1990s. North Korea actively markets several long-range missile systems to Iran, Egypt, Syria and others to generate revenue for its weapons-of-mass-destruction programs. All this could throw a monkey wrench into the administration's plans for Iraq. [Oh my, how revealing this statement is!] North Korea, for example, could use this as a pretext to return to testing of a missile capable of delivering a nuclear warhead to targets in the United States. [Yep, ya think?] Some of President Bush's critics have asked why he included North Korea in his "axis of evil." Last week's disclosures have answered that question. Like Saddam Hussein, Kim Jong-il is a cruel tyrant who starves his subjects to maintain a huge army and produce weapons of mass destruction. He has shown that his word is worthless. [Well, at least BuSh was right about ONE of those tyrants being a real threat to the free world.]
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Originally Posted by JohnnyBz00LS
[No proof here that Clinton knew NK was going to cheat WHEN he made the agreement with them in '94. The only sin Clinton comitted was trusting NK on their agreement.
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Originally Posted by 95DevilleNS
Well, he does bring up a good point, MANY in here have said that a byproduct (or was it a main reason?) of attacking Saddam was to show the rest of the world basically 'Don't F@#K WITH THE USA', examples of Syria cowering and withdrawing were used. But here we have a megalomaniac who has nukes and he has absolutely no fear of test firing intercontinental missiles.
What's your take on it? |
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Originally Posted by bufordtpisser
That it is not anyone outside of the US that we are needing to be in fear of. It is our own pansy azz fiberals that keep wanting to give the keys to the castle and also want to provide the means for all others to come in and finish the job that they have already started. The total destruction and degradation of the American way of life. The continued erosion of our freedoms from within, and the total assimilation of the US by foreigners. Thats my take on it.
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Originally Posted by fossten
Johnny shows his ignorance with regard to foreign policy in all of its full, unadulterated glory.
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Originally Posted by fossten
Johnny, you do not understand the importance of six-party talks or you wouldn't say stupid things like you did.
I will now take you to Diplomacy 101: The fact is that NK wants to separate the US from the rest of the world in general and the Security Council in particular by demanding single party talks. That would allow NK to make all manner of outlandish claims regarding what the US says in these talks. Six-party talks not only keeps everybody honest, but also puts NK in their place, since they don't deserve the respect of single party talks, being a half-a$$ed nation who is threatening her neighbors. Incidentally, that is another reason why they should be in six-party talks. You can't threaten your neighbors and then demand to speak only with the US. It's irrational. For you or anybody else to say that we should negotiate with them alone is irresponsible and ignorant. Hear me, Cinderella? |
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Originally Posted by JohnnyBz00LS
Besides, why are you so afraid of BuSh entering bi-lateral talks w/ NK?? We are after all, in your own assertions, the "DEFENDERS OF THE WORLD". You say that bi-lateral talks will "allow NK to make all manner of outlandish claims regarding what the US says in these talks." Why in the world would you think that Kim Jong Il would have more credibility in the eyes of the world than your hero George Bush??
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Originally Posted by JohnnyBz00LS
^^^ Oh oh, here we go again. This is the proof that fossten has lost the debate: Resorting to personal attacks. WOW, what a surprise!
In principle, I agree that six-party talks are the best way to go. However recent historical facts prove that they are NOT working. All that is happening is that BuSh is attempting to hang his hat on "six party talks" as evidence that "at least he's trying diplomacy" with NK and buying him more time to skate out of this mess he's gotten us into and leave it for the next dolt to get elected into office. Its a weak-a-s-s-ed cop-out. When you try the same failed approach to something time and time again and it continues to fail, isn't it time to try something else?? Besides, why are you so afraid of BuSh entering bi-lateral talks w/ NK?? We are after all, in your own assertions, the "DEFENDERS OF THE WORLD". You say that bi-lateral talks will "allow NK to make all manner of outlandish claims regarding what the US says in these talks." Why in the world would you think that Kim Jong Il would have more credibility in the eyes of the world than your hero George Bush?? Remember the scene in the grocery store where the child is acting up because mom won't let them have some candy? Any real mom with a backbone grabs that child by the ear and whispers to them privately a promise to spank their a-s-s when they get home. Works every time. |
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