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engine temerature?

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Posted by: turborich

Hey guys,

I live in Vegas where it's HOT! Yesterday myself and a freind of mine both drove our mark VIII's from Vegas to Pahrump, About 70 miles each way and quite a few steep hills. The temperature outside was around 106 degrees or so. I have never noticed my temperature gauge get so warm before. It got to the bottom of the N a few times when climbing some hills and styed around the O on the flat roads. My freind's Temperature gauge was also in the identical spots at the same time! I know this isn't accurate to use the factory temp gauge, however I don't have any other way to measure it yet. I'm going to buy a infered thermometer as soon as harbor freight gets them back in stock. Untill then though.... Is this normal? I drive my 00 expedition to the same place and up steep hills, it never leaves the middle on the temp gauge. I just wanna make sure it's OK for the engine to run at this temerature.

Thanks, Rich.

Posted by: driller

Not so much the engine as the engine AND transmission temps. How fast were you running? I've noticed quite an increase in temperature with an increase in speed in hot weather.

Posted by: Dr. Paul

I've been seeing some higher-than-normal temps in mine too here in the oven - Phoenix.

I'll be installing an autometer water temp gauge soon so I can determine what the heck those stock temp gauges translate to.

Paul.

Posted by: pepperman

Here is a link that might help. http://www.lincolnvscadillac.com/showthread.php?t=12477 It might help with engine temps.

Posted by: turborich

Quote:

Originally Posted by driller

Not so much the engine as the engine AND transmission temps. How fast were you running? I've noticed quite an increase in temperature with an increase in speed in hot weather.

We were both driving between 70-75 mph. going down the hills the cars both cooled right off, but any uphill or even pretty much flat driving caused them to run warm. Both cars have stock gears in them and have never ran warm until the heat hit today. We really don't do that much freeway driving either though. Both cars are in 100% terriffic mechanical condition and are well maintained.

Thanks for the link pepperman.... I just don't see how a factory set-up car would run that warm?? It would seem that the cooling system and the electric fan would be able to keep it cool.

When I get my infered thermometer I will let you guys know what the gauge transulates to.

Maybe the gauges just are not calibrated all that well and it's just got me nervous.

Posted by: Dominus

That is especially weird because just about any crappy old cooling system should be able to keep a car cool at speed. There's more air coming into your grille than 10 fans could produce.

I would suggest you replace your radiator if you are having trouble. Could be clogged.

Posted by: MediumD

Sounds fairly normal to me. I don't like to throw parts at a problem... much less a nonexistant problem.

Posted by: turborich

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominus

That is especially weird because just about any crappy old cooling system should be able to keep a car cool at speed. There's more air coming into your grille than 10 fans could produce.

I would suggest you replace your radiator if you are having trouble. Could be clogged.

The radiators are both in good condition, actually 1 of them is fairly new. Just before I purchased my car a Lincoln dealership replaced the waterpump, t-stat and flushed and filled the system. It's not the radiator. Maybe just a combination of excessive heat and maybe the gauges running a little high I hope? Both cars were at the same temps. Hopefully they will have the infrered thermometer in stock tomorrow, Then I'll know for sure.

Where can I get a new air deflector for the underneath of the front bumper cover? Is Ford the only place?

Thanks all.

Posted by: Marked4Life

Last week I installed a new trans cooler. I noticed a little fuzz in the lower corner of the air condencer, no big deal. I got a flash light and checked the radiator throught the inch gap between the condencer and radiator, it didn't look to bad. I then removed the upper radiator supports and holly cow, when I moved the radiator back I could then see my radiator looked like the lint screen on my drier. Loads of FUZZ all over it. It may not be your problem but you might want to check it. It looked good when I did the first quick check.

Raoul

Posted by: chickenviii

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marked4Life

Last week I installed a new trans cooler. I noticed a little fuzz in the lower corner of the air condencer, no big deal. I got a flash light and checked the radiator throught the inch gap between the condencer and radiator, it didn't look to bad. I then removed the upper radiator supports and holly cow, when I moved the radiator back I could then see my radiator looked like the lint screen on my drier. Loads of FUZZ all over it. It may not be your problem but you might want to check it. It looked good when I did the first quick check.

Raoul

i agree, ive seen this alot, just cuz the rad is new dosent mean that they cleaned out al the crap between the rad and the condencer, if its full it cant flow

Posted by: turborich

It looks to be clean but looks can be deceiving! I will check this out also. Thanks.

Posted by: MrWilson

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Paul

I'll be installing an autometer water temp gauge soon so I can determine what the heck those stock temp gauges translate to.

Paul.

iv been wanting to put aftermarket gauges in for a while now, but i do not know how. where do i put the sensorsfor the gauges? i wanted trans temp oil temp h2o temp, others later, but i want those because they are more critical imo, at this point.

Posted by: turborich

It's always a good idea to install aftermarket gauges IMO. The only reason that I have not put them in the mark.... well because it's a lincoln and I dont wanna cut or drill anything that I don't have too. I always installed them in my mustangs and my trucks though. Where are you guys planning on placing them? the dash or the A pillar?

Posted by: 67Continental

i am thinking beside the console, on the passenger side, facing the driver.

Posted by: Dr. Paul

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrWilson

I'll be tackling this sometime in the next few months - it's just really hot outside right now (Phoenix) so I'm not terribly motivated.

I'll probably write an article that you guys can post up so others can copy my work if they like. I'm not sure where I'll located the water temp sending unit yet - I might have my fabricator weld a bung onto the metal coolant tubes on top of the motor. A piece of steel rod stock could just be drilled/tapped to make it work. Either that or I'll see if I can do something with the thermostat housing. I'll weigh my options and do what makes the most sense.

Paul.

Posted by: turborich

OK, so what is normal operating temperature for a mark VIII? Mine got to around the (R) today and my infrared therometer had it about 215 degrees. This was at the front of the timming cover. Thats the hottest spot I could find. Does this sound like a normal temp?

Today outside around 2:00 PM I pointed it at the street (asphalt) and it was reading 155 degrees!! The actuall outside temp in the shade was around 106 or so.

I will wait until it goes up higher next time so I can check it again.

Oh yeah, I'm sure that Dr. paul could add another 5-8 degrees. It's even hotter there!

Posted by: Dr. Paul

It's frikkin hot as hell here. Ugh. I walked back from lunch today and I swear my feet get scorched from walking on asphalt.

215 degrees seems a bit hot. I'd prefer to keep the car around 185-195 if possible - of course, that may not be possible with very high ambient temps.

Posted by: driller

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Paul

215 degrees seems a bit hot. I'd prefer to keep the car around 185-195 if possible - of course, that may not be possible with very high ambient temps.

It may interest you to know on my '93(with the AC off), the stock fan turn-on temperature setting was 215* and the fan turned off at 205*.

Posted by: 02LSE96LSC91SE84TC

Jeez, I hate 80 degree temps.

Posted by: turborich

Quote:

Originally Posted by driller

It may interest you to know on my '93(with the AC off), the stock fan turn-on temperature setting was 215* and the fan turned off at 205*.

Is there an easy way to lower the stock fan turn on temp?

On mine with the A/C on the fan is always running full blast and the needle will still slowly creep on up there. I have read that the stock electric fan is one of the best ever made, so I would asume that it's pulling enough air. You know I had the same problem with my Bronco II that I used to own, Once it hit 105 outside it would run around 235 degrees. That was with a new heavy duty radiator twice as thick as the factory one and a fan that pulled crazy air. The radiator shop was even stumped.

I'm going to put my trans cooler on today if I have time, maybe this will help out a bit.

Posted by: Marked4Life

I asked that same question a while back, about turning on the fan at a lower temp. I hope you get an answer.
About 2 years ago in the Jegs cat. ( I think ) they had a thermostat that would slowly open and close, not just snap open at say 195. It would start to slowly open at about 185 and open more if the temp still went up. I think the idea is that it is easier to maintain the coolant temp than to cool the coolant down 10 or 15 deg. Plus there is no sudden rush of cool water into the engine. Might be worth looking into. I bought a new lower temp thermostat but I can't put it in, ( I can't get to some of the hose clamps and bolts) so good luck if you try this.
I might be in ST. George in a couple of weeks! Looking forward to a little heat!

Raoul

Posted by: driller

Quote:

Originally Posted by turborich

Is there an easy way to lower the stock fan turn on temp?

It can be done with a chip.

Posted by: Dr. Paul

Quote:

Originally Posted by driller

It may interest you to know on my '93(with the AC off), the stock fan turn-on temperature setting was 215* and the fan turned off at 205*.

Holy crap!

Damn, that not a very desirable factory setting IMHO. That's craziness.

Posted by: turborich

Dont they run them hot to reduce emissions and for increased fuel mileage?

Still think its too hot though.

Posted by: JC1994

when it's in the mid 90's and up mine will rise up half way on the gauge. sometimes when it get's in the upper 90's or 100 plus it will go up to about the "R" on NORMAL. this is one of the reasons I run 10W30 weight synthetic oil.

Posted by: JC1994

Quote:

Originally Posted by driller

It can be done with a chip.

or a reprogrammer, like my HyperTech..... the fan will run continuously with the AC on, I think most of you know this.

Posted by: driller

[quote=turborich]Dont they run them hot to reduce emissions and for increased fuel mileage?
[quote]

Pretty much. I know our FOMOCO trucks at work have normal operating temps of 210* or so. My son's late model jeep runs mid-gauge at 210* plus or minus a little. Even late model road tractors run 200*-220*. The days of engines running 185*-195* are long gone.

Posted by: mach8

I've noticed when the coolant is down a small amount it makes a big difference, much more than on any other car I've driven. Anytime mine starts to run a little hotter than normal I've found the coolant is low in the expansion tank, not a lot, but enough to make a difference.

Posted by: turborich

The coolant tank is full. As for the dirt or fuzz, there was a small amount of stuff in between the a/c cond. and the radiator. I blew it out with some shop air. After I got my trans cooler installed I let her heat up to normal temp with the a/c off. When the fan came on I had about 205 degrees at the x over pipe and about 198 degrees as soon as the fan turned off. This was using the infrared thermometer. The water pump was only showing around 185 degrees. My in dash gauge was reading right in between the M and the R. Right in the middle pretty much.

Next time I go for a drive and if it warms up towards the top of the gauge I will see just how hot it is and post it.

I might try the 40 below stuff if this continues.

Posted by: Marked4Life

Did you look through the radiator? If there was fuzz in the space between the AC condencer and radiator then your radiator might be clogged around the cooling fins and tubes. Did you check inside the radiator? You have very hard water there if I remember. Calcium build up will cause over heating also. I only use distilled water in my car and run a 40% antifreeze 60% water mix with water wetter. I even do the flushing with distilled water.
Raoul

Posted by: turborich

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marked4Life

Did you look through the radiator? If there was fuzz in the space between the AC condencer and radiator then your radiator might be clogged around the cooling fins and tubes. Did you check inside the radiator? You have very hard water there if I remember. Calcium build up will cause over heating also. I only use distilled water in my car and run a 40% antifreeze 60% water mix with water wetter. I even do the flushing with distilled water.
Raoul

You are correct about the hard water. I only use distilled water in my radiators, however the Lincoln dealership flushed and filled my mark before I bought it. I have the receipts for this. Not sure what kind of water they use though. How exactly do you flush a system like this without a radiator cap? Through the x-over pipe? I really dont think this is the problem but it wont hurt to do it.

Posted by: Marked4Life

Yep! through the cross over tube. Its an all day thing. You need to heat the engine up then let it cool down each time. Drain coolant and fill with distilled water and a bottle of flush/cleaner. Run up to temp and drain. Then fill with distilled water about 4 or 5 times running up to temp and draining. A pain in the butt I know. I believe in over doing it, rather than under doing it!
Raoul

Posted by: Marked4Life

And don't forget to run the heater so it also gets fluched and cleaned.

Posted by: Marked4Life

If after all of this if you still have problems, you might want to think about an oil cooler. About 50% of your engines cooling is from your oil system. B&M makes one with a thermostat and electric fan and it is not to big. With the fan you will get more cooling when stuck in traffic, a big plus where you live.
Raoul

Posted by: 67Continental

so we open the crossover and the water spills out there? how do I keep it from getting all over everything?

Posted by: Marked4Life

You drain it out the bottom of the radiator through the petcock and fill it with the cross over tube.

Posted by: 67Continental

with the car running?

Posted by: Marked4Life

I drain it with the car off and cooled down.
First drain coolant.
Pour in cem. flush and fill with distilled water. Run car per instructions up to temp. You need to make sure the thermostat opens each time so the engine is flushed also. Run your heater.
Turn off car and let cool. Drain radiator and repeat heating each time to operating temp. and cooling down using only distilled water so the entire system is rinsed out. The water will feel soapy and be hazy until it has been flushed enough times.
Clean out over flow bottle.
Fill with anti freeze and distilled water. Fill with anti freeze only until your mixture % has been reached. (16 q. capacity - 8 q. anti freeze for 50/50 mix) I also use a water wetter. Check often the first few days as air bubbles work out, top off as needed.
This is why I said it takes all day. You need to wait for the engine to cool each time before you empty the radiator then refill it.
I also use anti seize on the cross over tube cap.
Even though you drain the radiator there will always be coolant/water left in the system, that is why so many flushes with distilled water are needed.

Raoul

By the way, Great vid. clip! Love all that smoke!!!

Posted by: 67Continental

glad you like the smokeshow

I just tried to take my crossover cap off and it was so stuck that the square on top where you put the ratchet is stripped now

I think I will have to take off the tube just underneath the cap and fill it that way - do you think that will be ok?

Posted by: Dr. Paul

Quote:

Originally Posted by 67Continental

glad you like the smokeshow

I just tried to take my crossover cap off and it was so stuck that the square on top where you put the ratchet is stripped now

I think I will have to take off the tube just underneath the cap and fill it that way - do you think that will be ok?

I had the same problem on one of my Gen I's. I took it off with a pair of channel locks, then welded a big 17mm nut to the top of it. Problem solved!

Posted by: Marked4Life

Man, tough break on the cross cap. Thats why I use anti seize on almost every thing. It makes life alot easier down the road.

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