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Intake Flapper Valves

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Posted by: duckmster

My check engine light came on last night and i took the car to autozone to get it put on a code reader. The reader gave me a code that said something about the idle speed messed up. It said that the flappers were stuck open. The man at Autozone told me i'd have to take the intake manifold off to get the flappers unjammed. Thanks for anyones help!

Posted by: 1wykdmk8

You do not hafta remove the intake, you can use a product called SeaFoam and that should take care of your problem......

Posted by: driller

Flappers?

Gotta love AutoZone.

Posted by: MrWilson

Good ol intake flappers. Not to steal the thread, but when i was at work yesterday (work being pepboys) we called autozone and were asking for a radiator for a 68 bug, and they were runnin arround for like 20 min tryin to find it. they finally said, i dont think it has one, and i told them, what do you mean it doesnt have one, i have the old one in my hand right here! and back to searching, finally i had to hang up cuz it was just too funny to hold back the laughter anymore. They sure are dumb there)

Posted by: EconomySpeedNStyle

Yeah, flappers.... didn't you know that the Marks have pudgy little women from the 1920's with short, greasy hairdo's dancing around the inside of the engine?

"Autozone: the worst advice minimum wage can buy."

Posted by: MediumD

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrWilson

Good ol intake flappers. Not to steal the thread, but when i was at work yesterday (work being pepboys) we called autozone and were asking for a radiator for a 68 bug, and they were runnin arround for like 20 min tryin to find it. they finally said, i dont think it has one, and i told them, what do you mean it doesnt have one, i have the old one in my hand right here! and back to searching, finally i had to hang up cuz it was just too funny to hold back the laughter anymore. They sure are dumb there)

Original VW Beetles were air cooled AFAIK. I know my dad's 69 was.

Posted by: MrWilson

Quote:

Originally Posted by MediumD

Original VW Beetles were air cooled AFAIK. I know my dad's 69 was.

thats what was so funny

Posted by: chickenviii

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrWilson

thats what was so funny

all the old bugs were air cooled, at work (ford) we called them and had them looking for a t stat, and a water pump, hell if i go back further in time when i was a kid and worked at wal mart we had a girl there looking for a box of dehydrated water, the sad thing was she looked for about an hour and told up that this wal mart dosent cary it maby they could order it from another store if they caried it................................................ ............

and yes seafoam should work just change all your plugs etc. after just do a serch and u should find something about it

Posted by: 95lscowner

i use to be a manager at a dominos pizza and all the new people that would come in we would send them to go find a dough repair kit

Posted by: MediumD

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrWilson

thats what was so funny

Sorry I didn't get it last night, thought you were seriously thinking it had a radiator.

Posted by: 1wykdmk8

Quote:

Originally Posted by 95lscowner

i use to be a manager at a dominos pizza and all the new people that would come in we would send them to go find a dough repair kit

When I was in the Navy and on submarines when we shot a waterslug we used to send the NUB's to go get the serial number off of the waterslug......

Or we would send the NUB's up to get the mail bouy when we surfaced.....

Posted by: duckmster

thank you guys so much! Yes autozone is a joke! Everytime you ask them anything they automatically know exactly what your talking about, in realiity they have never seen an engine in a car before. Once again thanks for the help and i'll defiantly give that sea foam a try. Oh and what exactly do the "flappers" or intake manifold runners to be more educated sounding do? I never got a good answer from autozone he stood there and bull craped me for 10 mins!

Posted by: driller

Basically they close off half the intake runners to maximize intake velocity at lower rpms for more torque output.

Posted by: Joeychgo

Quote:

Originally Posted by driller

Flappers?

Gotta love AutoZone.

No Kidding!

Posted by: Dr. Paul

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1wykdmk8

NUB's

LMAO.

"What's a NUB?"

"You're a NUB"

"But why?"

"Is this your first time under?"

"Yes"

"Well, because you don't know, you're a NUB."

"I don't get it."

"Non Useful Body you stupid bastard."

"Oh."

Posted by: chickenviii

Quote:

Originally Posted by duckmster

thank you guys so much! Yes autozone is a joke! Everytime you ask them anything they automatically know exactly what your talking about, in realiity they have never seen an engine in a car before. Once again thanks for the help and i'll defiantly give that sea foam a try. Oh and what exactly do the "flappers" or intake manifold runners to be more educated sounding do? I never got a good answer from autozone he stood there and bull craped me for 10 mins!

the IMRC's are used because the intake has 2 different length runners for each cyl of the engine one for low rpm and one for high rpm so at around i think 3k (if im wrong someone correct the rpm) they open and use the other runner to the cyls, so basically your car has 2 intake manifolds depending on the driving condition

Posted by: EconomySpeedNStyle

The intake runners are the same length... it's just another set of the same... basically 8 runners are open below 3000-ish RPM. Above that, the engine breathes through 16 runners.

This way, the engine has snappier throttle response and better torque (under 3K RPM, air is sucked through a single port per cylinder reuslting in very fast moving air) but incredible power at full throttle (over 3K RPM, the engine needs to inhale a lot more air to continue to make power).

It's not technically a variable length runner system, but more of a variable volume...

Posted by: Hot_rod_lincoln_1970

Laugh if you may But the auto zone guy is right. I have the same issue and its the actuator that opperates this "flap" and you will have to remove the intake to repair, according to alldata its a 4 hour job. I have had luck with clearing the code and it stays gone for awhile till i let the car sit for more than a week and its comes right back. This leads me to belive its a sticking issue (dirt) around this flap not the actual actuator. The last time it came on it cleared itself, but then i drove my mark yesterday and it rough idled and the damm light is on again, car drives fine now but now i have to clear the code.

Posted by: rmac694203

They say carbon build up makes them stick. Seafoam cleans the carbon off the intake. Makes quite a bit of smoke as well.

Posted by: 98LSC32V

Seafoam is a great product, works best after 2 applications in my experience...

Posted by: MonsterMark

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hot_rod_lincoln_1970

Laugh if you may But the auto zone guy is right. I have the same issue and its the actuator that operates this "flap" and you will have to remove the intake to repair, according to alldata its a 4 hour job. I have had luck with clearing the code and it stays gone for awhile till i let the car sit for more than a week and its comes right back. This leads me to belive its a sticking issue (dirt) around this flap not the actual actuator. The last time it came on it cleared itself, but then i drove my mark yesterday and it rough idled and the damm light is on again, car drives fine now but now i have to clear the code.

Have you ever seen the 4.6 4V '93-'96 intake manifold taken apart? I am pretty sure we have some pics of one here on the site if you do a search. If not, I could take a pic of one I guess. (lazy)

Essentially, you have a 1/8" diameter rod running thru the manifold on each cylinder bank directly perpendicular to the intake air path. The 4.6 4V intake has 16 runners feeding air to the engine. The engine has only 8 injectors feeding gas to 8 cylinders.

When driving around under 3200 rpm, the 'flaps' stay closed on 8 of the runners. Above 3200 rpm, the 'flappers' rotate 90 degrees to allow air into all 16 runners feeding the 8 cylinders. As stated before, if all 16 runners were open all the time, there would not be enough air velocity to 'fill' the cylinders, resulting in less torque from the engine. So Ford came up with the IMRC (Intake Manifold Runner Control) concept to aid in low speed engine torque production as well as provide high speed rpm and hp production.

The system works great but where Ford screwed up was in the exhaust design and volume. The engine inhales with little congestion. Exhaling is a different story. You can add a blower and such but without reworking the exhaust ports and manifold, you stand a much greater chance of burning the pistons. Too much in, not enough out. That is why our motors love headers and exhaust. They also love head work, especially on the exhaust side.

Long story short, if you knew what the IMRC 'flappers' looked like, you would have a better idea understanding how carbon buildup might potentially make them stick in either the open or closed position. After all, they are vacuum operated so any buildup on the bar and brass bearings will tend to bind a little bit.

I would recommend investing the time and hassle of a couple cans of Seafoam (Pepboys, AutoZone etc.) or try Berrymans B-12 Chemtool (Walmart, Advanced Auto, etc) or even Marvel will do pretty much the same thing as the Seafoam. I prefer the Berrymans (cheaper than Seafoam, works as good) and I'm in Walmart more often.