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How long do the suspension bags last?

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Posted by: adrianfward

So, I'm looking at getting a Mark VII, and there are two decent ones available in my area...

One has been converted to coil suspension, the other hasn't.

My question is how long the air suspension bags will last if I go with the one that doesn't have the coil suspension. I'd rather have the bags, but not if I'm going to have to replace them every year. Also, are there other parts that go along with the air suspension system that are prone to failure?

thanks
adrian

Posted by: Awesund

Test drive em both and feel the difference. Ask how the coil conversion was done and know the difference between a good job and a hack job. If you don't know, crawl up under there and take some pics...I'll tell you.

I think Ford rated the Air springs at about 50,000-70,000 miles. Someone else here, might know more about that. It's best to replace them in pairs or all 4 at once. Then you're really good to go!

There are parts that can break down throughout the system. But if you keep up on maintenence. It'll serve you quite well.
Most people b*tch and whine about it because they didn't know what they were buying besides the looks of the Mark VII.

Posted by: adrianfward

will do, assuming i can get my present car sold....

i thought it was going to happen yesterday, but im not sure if its going to work out.

in a related question, how much (on average) can i expect to spend on repairs and maintenance if i do most work myself? how readily available are parts? how reliable are the big issues...engine, etc?

thanks
adrian

Posted by: JoshMcMadMac

The bags start to go out sometime after 10 years. If the bags are stock they'll probably be getting pretty tired...but remember that they would be at least 14 years old at this point.

Posted by: OldSchool1

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoshMcMadMac

The bags start to go out sometime after 10 years. If the bags are stock they'll probably be getting pretty tired...but remember that they would be at least 14 years old at this point.

True.
Why do people complain about a rubber product that fails after 10 years of use?

The only reasons an air ride system would need constant replacement would be poor labor or used parts.

Posted by: JoshMcMadMac

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldSchool1

True.
Why do people complain about a rubber product that fails after 10 years of use?

Because coils last forever...oh wait, no they don't...they wear out too.

Posted by: OldSchool1

lmFao

Posted by: Black87LSC

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoshMcMadMac

Because coils last forever...oh wait, no they don't...they wear out too.

Do coils break and make ya fall down on the FCUKING' GROUND at random times too?!?!

Posted by: JoshMcMadMac

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black87LSC

Do coils break and make ya fall down on the FCUKING' GROUND at random times too?!?!

Yes. And probably with a higher percentage than air bags do.

Posted by: Awesund

Who said that?? Josh??? Do you really believe that?

You must just be kidding and forgot the 'lol'. But I'll have some fun with it. . .

Coils don't go bad often and they certainly don't "blow out".
Unless you have 500,000 miles on a car, drove it on Jupiter with strong gravity, or are using it to haul junk or illegal immigrants all the time; coils will generally last the life of the car. Sure, some of them may sag after while..but that can be more than 50 years. The steering wheel will break before the coils do.

Of all the cars on the road at any time, in any state. I only see Air-Springed Lincolns and the occasional Cadillac rears doing the "crawl for maintenence".

Go to the Mustang websites and look for the people talking about broken/sagging springs or sitting on the ground. Camaros, or 57 T-birds...You won't find such threads in abundance. .. .
I think you were kidding, though. .

Posted by: OldSchool1

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black87LSC

Do coils break and make ya fall down on the FCUKING' GROUND at random times too?!?!

Ding Ding
Steel weakens over time.

Posted by: lincoln vi lover

while surfing the net, I found an aftermarket company that sells airbag suspension replacements for many models. Don't know its reputation. I recall $500-$600 range for all four wheels. At that price, I would keep it original. I was told by a real Caddy enthusist that the airbag suspension Lincolns are the smoothest ride. That was one of few Lincoln features he will admit. I will email you the info when I find it again.

Posted by: lincoln vi lover

Arnott Industries
399 Challenger Rd. #3
Cape Canaveral, FL 32920

$92 per airbag spring plus other recommended replacments. Less than $500 plus labour. Made in germany. Also on website, there is a installation guide.

Posted by: Awesund

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldSchool1

Ding Ding
Steel weakens over time.

lol...Well, sure it does. But for heavan's sake, not at the deterioration rate of an airspring...

Not to mention environmental conditions that can shorten an airspring life.

Hell, I think the air suspension is fantastic when it's all working right.
But by and large, a coil will outlast any airspring.
I've owned a lot of different cars and managed a used car lot years ago. Bad coil springs were not an issue. Same at the auctions.

Posted by: 93zzzt

i bought my mark vii for nothing because it's air suspension was "busticated." My coil conversion showed up about and hour ago, i may start tearing the car apart in the morning.

I might remember to take some pictures.

It was cheaper for me (and safer) to replace my air suspension with coils, as the air system was destroyed and had a bad line.

I don't think the ride will be different enough to stress about NOT having the air ride. But not stressing about going 300 miles from home, eating something, and coming out of the eatery to discover the mark flat on it's ass, priceless.

Posted by: Awesund

Quote:

Originally Posted by 93zzzt

I don't think the ride will be different enough to stress about NOT having the air ride. But not stressing about going 300 miles from home, eating something, and coming out of the eatery to discover the mark flat on it's ass, priceless.

OOo-Rah!

But what if your coils break down while you're in the eatery? lol

Seriously though...let us know what kit you bought and then tell us your oppinion of the ride difference.

Posted by: 93zzzt

Ok. Here is my review of the Strutmasters Air to coil spring conversion kit.

I received the Strutmasters air to spring conversion kit Friday night. I got up bright and early on Saturday morning about 10, ate, and went outside.

I started lifting the car. Promptly blew the seals clean outta my old floor jack. I cussed, fluently. Then I figured that "I'M DIVORCED! No one can tell me not to go buy tools now."

So I went and got a jack and two new stands from Sears as a kit for 39 bucks. I didn't really need the stands, but you can never have too many.

I returned to the driveway. Lifted the car, put it on 4 stands, and removed the wheels. I then noticed that the driver’s front air spring was not like the other three. It turns out it was a new Arnott spring and ride height sensor. I noted to myself not to tear that up, one of you guys might want/need it.

I removed the front brakes. I followed the procedure to remove the struts. First snag, doing this by hand sucks. I should build a garage, install a floor lift, and get a compressor and air tools. We ended up using a four way tire tool to remove some of these bolts.

Removing the air springs was no problem. Be patient, if you haven’t taken this apart before, it’s not that difficult. The provided instructions weren’t that clear on the metal clips on the solenoids. I then went to the back, did the same. It took far longer to break the bolts loose and take this all apart than I expected. The original struts and shocks were still there. I don’t think this had ever been apart in the years the car was running around. The rest of the car was so well maintained that I just assumed the struts and shocks were also. Wrong.

We got the car back together and on the ground in about an hour. That was after about 5 hours of taking it apart. We had to wait for about 45 minutes while a buddy took the old struts to his shop to impact the mounting hardware off the top of them. Thanks, Bob!

The passenger side front sway bar connector BROKE when i took it apart, so i left it unhooked and zip tied it out of the way. I went and got new connectors. Even more pain in the ass parts running.

The three old air bags were firestone bags with a date of 1991 on them. This probably meant OEM, we figure. So they did, in fact, last quite a while. They were dry rotted and cracked at the fold pretty badly and the passenger side bag leaked when you put soapy water on it. (The compressor failed, the other two ride height sensors were bad, and something else was wrong with the suspension, anyway. And since I’m paranoid about breakage on long trips, you can’t beat the reliability of the coil spring.)

I removed the ride height sensors while I had the suspension apart. They were useless to me now and would be something else to become an annoying rattle.

We got the new suspension all together, and got the car back on the ground. Looking at the car right after it was sitting on all four wheels, I almost passed out. It was sitting at the maximum extension of the suspension. Holy

, a four wheel drive mark 7.

I ran around the yard and cussed a lot.

Then i remembered when I put new springs in my 79 Trans-am. Oh yes, they must settle and find themselves.

So I then bounced the car some and we went in and got cleaned up and ate dinner. My buddy Monty (without whom I could not have completed this project) and I decided to get fuel. Upon walking outside I noticed that the car had indeed settled down some and we went and filled it up with fuel, at 3.15 a gallon for premium.

Since I hadn't actually gotten the car aligned, we just marked the strut towers and put the struts back in the same position. I'm sure it's not aligned correctly, but it doesn't feel bad to drive. We took it around town a little bit and it was a very smooth and quiet ride. I was somewhat disturbed to not hear the air compressor. Oh yes, good bye noisy rattle device..

After a quick break in drive we parked it. I was very impressed, however, I was taking that with a grain of salt due to the fact I usually get impressed after I spend money. Then I get disappointed and pissed if the project doesn’t work to expectation. The car handles quite a bit better. After I get it aligned fully I'll take it out and thrash it a bit and see what my new mph is in some of the corners that I frequent.

This evening, my girlfriend and I went for a cruise down Illinois 100. Yeah i know, it’s still not aligned but I did far too much work to the car to wait for the alignment shop to get me in by midweek.

The springs have settled nicely, the car looks very good, very aggressive stance. It is about 3/4ths of an inch below what Lincoln says the ride height should be. The ride is stiffer than the air was, but I feel far more connected to the road. I think a lot of this could be the new struts and shocks. However, it corners harder than a friend of mine’s Mark VII that has a full Ford replacement air suspension under it, and doesn’t jolt or bound on the rough roads here. It’s very quiet, and I don’t miss the intermittent buzz of the compressor.

All in all, I’m very impressed so far with this kit, and I do feel satisfied in my decision to replace the air spring system with coils.

If anyone has questions either post here or pm me.

Posted by: OldSchool1

Quote:

Originally Posted by 93zzzt

...
"I'M DIVORCED! No one can tell me not to go buy tools now."
...

This statement ALONE makes your conversion a success!

John "Bags-Forever" Dancy

Posted by: Awesund

Quote:

Originally Posted by 93zzzt

The ride is stiffer than the air was, but I feel far more connected to the road. I think a lot of this could be the new struts and shocks.

Yes, more than likely. This is where most people think the coils are the stiffness but we all know that cadillacs use coils and have a soft ride. New struts will firm up the Mark VII ride a lot. A large percentage of car owners don't change struts...ever!
If you hadn't replaced them, your ride would be very close to what it was.

Congrats on your new coil conversion!

Posted by: 93zzzt

So I noticed that one of the front rubber brake lines was a little questionable. I tooled up to the local Napa parts place, (i get a discount like a shop would), got the lines, went back out to the car, and CLUNK. No start. Grr. Starter locked up in the parking lot of the PARTS store.

Better there than like the world ford challenge, and hour or so away.

But still.

Posted by: hrtatak

Quote:

Originally Posted by 93zzzt

War and Peace length post on coil spring conversion

Now I know why I had to do most of the work when we replaced the air bags with springs; he was planning that long winded post.

Seriously guys; the conversion is EASY to do and the car still rides great.

Monty--one of those darned Mustang guys

Posted by: 93zzzt

Infidel!

hahah.

I was asked for a review. sorry that your gnat like attention span was offended.

Again, this was a very easy job to do. especially with my musclehead friend helping...

Posted by: 93zzzt

oh btw, he was posting from work....the slacker!

Posted by: Awesund

Quote:

Originally Posted by 93zzzt

oh btw, he was posting from work....the slacker!

lol. . yes...but a first time post for him, here. He's good for a new member as I am at the Corral!

Posted by: Black87LSC

Quote:

Originally Posted by Awesund

lol...Well, sure it does. But for heavan's sake, not at the deterioration rate of an airspring...

THANK YOU!!!