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Bags suck

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Posted by: 89MARKVII

So I got the rear down, and didn't put my ride height sensor back to were it was. So the car was sitting a litle lower in the rear, I go to my car yesterday morning and now the rear is on the ground. So I need all four bags and a compressor/dryer. What the hell am I going to do with this car, is it really worth me putting this work into it, just to get 12.5 miles per gallon? But on the other hand I cant afford another car right now. I just put exhaust on this car, and think its awsome. WTF?

Posted by: OldSchool1

Ford ThunderBirds and Cougars from the 80's ran on springs. This springs were non adjustable and allowed for lots of body roll in the stock form. The Lincoln Mark VII Air Ride Suspension System is a load leveling system, designed to maintain the same trim height on the vehicle despite loaded conditions. It's the ultimate Luxury Sport Coupe allowing for the same ride with four adult passengers as you'd receive riding by yourself.

Air Bags are a rubber product, just like our tires. They have a finite life and eventually need to be replaced. Once I understood the system, it became clear that I'd NEVER deviate from the stock setup. Switching from bags to springs would be like switching from rubber tires to steel tires.

Learn the system.

Replace/refurbish the parts. The original parts lasted how long? hmmm I'll bet the replacement parts last even longer (when properly installed without cutting corners).

Enjoy the most advanced suspension system built for your Luxury Sport Coupe.

Posted by: JoshMcMadMac

Your first mistake was changing the ride height of old, stock bags. This has caused it the leaks.

Second, it shouldn't be getting 12.5MPG unless you are flogging on the car. I get 18-19MPG beating around town, with a lot of lower speed driving. It sounds like you have several issues to confront.

Posted by: Awesund

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldSchool1

The Lincoln Mark VII Air Ride Suspension System is a load leveling system, designed to maintain the same trim height on the vehicle despite loaded conditions.
Switching from bags to springs would be like switching from rubber tires to steel tires.

Wow John, you almost had me believing it for a moment.

Okay, seriously though...to the guy having trouble. Buy new airsprings all around. You'll be very happy.

Additionally, it should be noted that the 87-88 fox body Thunderbird turbo coupe would outhandle the Mark VII with ease. The idea behind the Mark's leveling in corners was not realized with this system because it didn't think fast enough. It was... "Old School" computing.

....from rubber to steel tires?...

now that's just not right! lol.

Cheers

Posted by: OldSchool1

Quote:

Originally Posted by Awesund

Wow John, you almost had me believing it for a moment.

"... lost another one to Arnott."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Awesund

Okay, seriously though...to the guy having trouble. Buy new airsprings all around. You'll be very happy.

Anyone that has experienced the air bag ride will be quite satisfied with replacement bags.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Awesund

I've only been told that the Turbo Coupe handled better. I haven't driven one with a stock set up so I cannot speak from experience.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Awesund

....from rubber to steel tires?...

now that's just not right! lol.

Cheers

I normally have to pinch myself to keep from laughing when I use that analogy but it's the BEST one that I've come across in the BAGS vs SPRINGS debate.

Here's another point. I know two guys with race cars that have bags.

Posted by: NYC LS8

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldSchool1

Here's another point. I know two guys with race cars that have bags.

I'd be one of them.

Posted by: Awesund

Yeah, that's cool!
I recon you have the heavy duty air springs for that. I heard stories about stock ones, blowing out under the torque at take off in serious race conditions. Is that true.?

I'm about to install this stroker motor. It's spec'd out for 450+ at the rear wheels! Curious to see what times I get.

If I can keep it on the track...lol.

Posted by: JoshMcMadMac

Quote:

Originally Posted by Awesund

Yeah, that's cool!
I recon you have the heavy duty air springs for that. I heard stories about stock ones, blowing out under the torque at take off in serious race conditions. Is that true.?

I'm about to install this stroker motor. It's spec'd out for 450+ at the rear wheels! Curious to see what times I get.

If I can keep it on the track...lol.

1) There are no "heavy-duty" air springs. They are all of the same durability.

2) Good luck actually putting 450HP to the wheels. That's a lot of engine.

Posted by: Awesund

1) There are heavy duty airsprings, Josh. Ford made special heavy duty rear air springs for the 'tow package' because the others could blow. Additionally some semi-tractor trailers use them. They're ribbed, and thicker.

2) Awwe Don't be a wet blanket. what are you talking about?..lol...Luck is for rabbits. Mustangs and other cars, heavier than mine, do it all the time. It just depends what you want. It is a lot of engine, but it's also a lot of fun.

After 10 years of custom labor on this vehicle, I thought a 347 would be a great compliment. I certainly wouldn't put that much torque on an airspring. Good thing I have coils.

Posted by: JoshMcMadMac

Quote:

Originally Posted by Awesund

1) There are heavy duty airsprings, Josh. Ford made special heavy duty rear air springs for the 'tow package' because the others could blow. Additionally some semi-tractor trailers use them. They're ribbed, and thicker.

2) Awwe Don't be a wet blanket. what are you talking about?..lol...Luck is for rabbits. Mustangs and other cars, heavier than mine, do it all the time. It just depends what you want. It is a lot of engine, but it's also a lot of fun.

After 10 years of custom labor on this vehicle, I thought a 347 would be a great compliment. I certainly wouldn't put that much torque on an airspring. Good thing I have coils.

1) So you aren't talking about specific Mark VII springs? If that is the case, I understand. In this context it appeared that you were refering to specific Mark VII springs that are designated "heavy duty" which were never an option. No one has "heavy duty" springs on their Mark VII. And to answer your question, the stories of blown bags on hard launches is just that, stories.

2) Apparently you're awful defensive about this new engine, so you decided to take my well wishes personally and completely out of context. Whatever. I am certainly now interested to hear your approach to crank 450rwhp out of a 347...are you planning on boost?

Posted by: Awesund

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoshMcMadMac

Yes, Mark VII springs. Back in the early 90's I had a side business repairing Mark VII suspensions. When ordering a new spring, the dealer parts guy asked me if I needed the 'heavy duty' air spring for towing. They were more expensive. That's what I remember. I do know of at least one situation where an airspring blew from a hard launch and I thought the guy mentioned a heavy duty replacement. It was at the old hotrodlincoln website. I'm not talking about launches on factory horsepower. This was a Mark VII guru who'd built a powerful car. And more than likely the airspring was old and dry rotted. In any case, it's a very possible scenario. I surely wasn't implying that it happens frequently.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoshMcMadMac

2) Apparently you're awful defensive about this new engine, so you decided to take my well wishes personally and completely out of context. Whatever. I am certainly now interested to hear your approach to crank 450rwhp out of a 347...are you planning on boost?

Huh??!

lol.. Oh, I don't think my reply was defensive at all; just poking a little fun, Lighten up. You worded that in a way that it looked more skeptical than a kind well wish. So I guess you didn't get the wet blanket joke, then, huh?...hehe.
But seriously, I've been modding these cars before there was a real internet. I wouldn't BS you. I'm just posting some things in a forum from my 11+ years experience with these cars. I personally knew Don Arnott when he was just starting out and we were both learning new things and comparing notes. A really nice guy. He taught me some cool things.

But anyway, getting 400-450 rwhp out of a 347 without boost is not so difficult with the right Heads, cam, intake combo. You have to move the most amount of air possible. Here's one example.
http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2...book/index.php

Posted by: OldSchool1

Quote:

Originally Posted by Awesund

...
It was at the old hotrodlincoln website. I'm not talking about launches on factory horsepower. This was a Mark VII guru who'd built a powerful car. And more than likely the airspring was old and dry rotted. In any case, it's a very possible scenario. I surely wasn't implying that it happens frequently.

...

Sounds like Big Ant

Posted by: Awesund

Damn, that guy is serious about a hot rod Lincoln!
I'm not sure if it was him. This was back in '99.
What a website. He sure loves to pimp out them Marks eh.
Far out!
Did you watch this?
http://www.badasslincoln.com/bigantrun.wmv
lol. Shnizit!

Posted by: OldSchool1

Quote:

Originally Posted by Awesund

Damn, that guy is serious about a hot rod Lincoln!
I'm not sure if it was him. This was back in '99.
What a website. He sure loves to pimp out them Marks eh.
Far out!
Did you watch this?
http://www.badasslincoln.com/bigantrun.wmv
lol. Shnizit!

Yeah.
About 468 times.
Those hotrodders sure are something!

Posted by: JoshMcMadMac

You have to get us a part number for those heavy duty springs...inquiring minds want to know!

Posted by: Awesund

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoshMcMadMac

You have to get us a part number for those heavy duty springs...inquiring minds want to know!

Gosh, Josh I never ordered them. Hell, this was over 10 years ago. I just remember the conversation.
It's quite possible that Ford had them available at one time or another, you know how that is...part types can come and go. I don't know. Firestone made the Ford airsprings for a while. Then someone else. Was it goodyear? I really don't remember anymore. I'm getting old. heheh.. heh.. .oh no.

Posted by: Sergmark

Damn,
I wish I was driving that car

Posted by: OldSchool1

Quote:

Originally Posted by Awesund

Found em ...
sorta ...

According to:

The 1991 Town Car had an HD Pkg (Heavy Duty Package) and a Tow Pkg. Both included all sorts of goodies which probably added about 75-125 pounds to the car but, allowed it to tow an empty 1991 dual axle camper without buring up it's AOD or warping the heads on it's 4.6 liter V-8. Anyway, listed are a bunch of HD items but nothing that directly says HD bags.

HD Frt Suspension Lwr Ctrl Arms is the closes that this resource comes.

BOT.

What we need to find is like six Mark VIIs with tow packages. Though dealership installed, they may also have dealership installed rear bags. These could have a higher capacity. Remember: the primary reason for installing air bags on a Mark wasn't comfort or performance, but to make sure that the wheels of a fully loaded vehicle would still have the ability to benefit from full range of up and down motion. (Damn I read too much)

Tongue weight wouldn't be a problem here since our Marks produced 300 lbs of torque in 1990, but ride height would. Spring rates on early LSC's were 368 lb-in. front and 202 lb-in. rear (Motortrend Magazine August 1983). Since Hall Effect switches indicated height, there was no need to make a change there. What would it take to give a rear bag greater spring rate in anticipation of greater downward force from say, a trailer? Thicker bag? Less concaved cone? Higher capacity compressor?

This is all speculation and entertainment but you have to admit; using a Lincoln Mark VII TurboDiesel with HD Rear Bags as a tow vehicle for your Lincoln Mark VII race car would be pretty sick (I mean that in a good way).

I feel better now.

Posted by: JoshMcMadMac

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldSchool1

I feel better now.

Breath, John. Breath.

Posted by: OldSchool1

Thanks.

Hey 89MARKVII.
How'd you make out?

Posted by: Awesund

Thanks for the input, y'all. It was just LSC springs that came with a tow package. Big deal, eh.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldSchool1

Hey 89MARKVII.
How'd you make out?

Oh yeah, i forgot about him.

Posted by: OldSchool1

Quote:

Originally Posted by Awesund

Thanks for the input, y'all. It was just LSC springs that came with a tow package. Big deal, eh.

Oh yeah, i forgot about him.

We tend to do that.
It's cool.