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Twin remote Turbo.....

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Posted by: chris

Click here

Thoughts???

Posted by: MarkVIII93

I beleive that i saw one of those on a firebird in a carcraft magazine....

Posted by: chris

Its an interesting concept. On the Crown Vic board I'm a member of a guy got a quote on the universal kit of $3125. And you have to fab up whatever they dont provide. So it could get pricey.

Posted by: Frat-man-du

I saw a new Mustang with one simliar I think it was like $8 grand when he was done. He said it made a big difference - like 50% more HP and 80% more torque.

Posted by: Frogman

The only problem with those is finding the RIGHT turbo size.

Posted by: Kbob

Surely this would increase the turbo-lag.

Posted by: buddylee

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kbob

Surely this would increase the turbo-lag.

newer turbo's don't suffer from lag

Posted by: Frogman

With respect, the do suffer from lag. Maybe not as much as an old thrust bearing turbo, but the new ball bearing turbos do suffer a lag.

Now, you take a new turbo, and you hook it up 12 feet away from the engine, it will suffer from turbo lag.

Sure, you can get a tiny turbo, and have it not suffer as much lag. But then you start choking that turbo at 4000rpm.

That's why I said you have to find the RIGHT A/R sized turbo.

Posted by: MrWilson

Quote:

Originally Posted by buddylee

newer turbo's don't suffer from lag

all turbos suffer from lag. If turbos had no problems, superchargers would be obsolete.

Posted by: mhinchley

I will say, they are getting some nice dyno numbers from that thing. But a 12.6 1/4 on the 05 Mustang when they run 13.5 stock does not impress me for $7500 upgrade. You could do much better, looking at it that way.

Posted by: Frogman

But you have to remember, what boost are they running?

Is the motor set up for high boost? I'll be running almost 15PSI, but the motor will be set up for that much boost.

Posted by: Dr. Paul

A good performance turbo (like the Garrett GT series, ball bearing or not) that is sized with the appropriate turbine and compressor wheels and housings will suffer from very little lag. There will certainly be slightly more lag with a rear-mount kit like STS, however, you must remember that once the exhaust pipes are filled with exhaust, it will STILL spool the turbo in a reasonable amount of time. The GTO guys have been having tremendous success with these rear-mount kits.

Granted I personally would never run a turbo kit that requires sump-pumps for oil supply, but that's my personal preference. The idea is still sound, and offers up options for those folks with limited engine bay landscape to work - like Mark VIII owners for example.

My 98 LSC put down 228rwhp/227rwtq on the dyno here in Phoenix bone stock. I would imagine that ~15psi (1 bar) would put the car above the 400rwhp mark, for as long as the cracked-cap connecting rods decided they wanted to hold it.

Paul.

Posted by: Frogman

You don't need sump pumps.

Get yourself a Shurflo 12 V DC pump that can handle hot liquids. Hook it up to your turbo timer with a relay, and vioala! no need for a sump pump.

Scavenging pumps have been used very successfully in airplanes where the turbo(s) are sometimes mounted under the engine for years.

Hell, even Callaway uses scavenging pumps on their turbocharged vettes.

Edit: Christ on a cracker, I can't type tonight...

Posted by: mhinchley

That is still just way too much money for a 12.6 in a 05 mustang for $7500 and that is just for the t-turbo??? Would be worse for a mark due to weight and other upgrades....to make it work on one. My fox body ran 11's, 12's on street tires and I paid $9000 for it with 56k miles (and all hypo'd up with fresh 306, vortech s-trim, suspension, locker, tremec, etc). Buy em on ebay all day long. Or even a Grand National/T-Type. Just too much money to go fast in these Marks for me personally. Would rather just keep it as a luxury daily and have a seperate car for racing around. But that is just me.

Posted by: buddylee

Only turbo car that I've driven that was any good was 87 T-bird , Hell one of my work trucks was a turbo and I never knew it .

Posted by: 94m5

Quote:

Originally Posted by buddylee

Only turbo car that I've driven that was any good was 87 T-bird , Hell one of my work trucks was a turbo and I never knew it .

Probably a chevy 6.5L

Posted by: buddylee

cummins 4 banger , diesel so loud I never heard the whine.

as for my statment about no more lag... On the show Trucks a gey from banks turbos was on , He said something about with new turbos thier was almost no turbo lag
Then again he was on TV and he's try`n to sell his stuff.

frogman you are a class act "with all due respect" , Yet I post about getting a bra for my wifes car and I get some random fool posting about me were womans underwere ......... the range of ppl here is truly wide.

Posted by: Dr. Paul

Quote:

Originally Posted by mhinchley

That is still just way too much money for a 12.6 in a 05 mustang for $7500 and that is just for the t-turbo???

That's because '05 Mustangs are stupid pieces of sh*t, there computers are a nightmare to work with, the anti-slip tables in the computer make launching the dang things REALLY hard, and they're pigs - weighing in what a luxury car should weigh, not a pony car.

Paul.

Posted by: Frogman

Quote:

Originally Posted by buddylee

frogman you are a class act "with all due respect" , Yet I post about getting a bra for my wifes car and I get some random fool posting about me were womans underwere ......... the range of ppl here is truly wide.

I am not sure I understand your paragraph towards me.

Posted by: turborich

just my oppinion, but why would anyone use this thing? what is wrong with a real turbo system that runs off of the headers? you would think that this would have trememdous lag and look at the piping, it runs under the rear axle?? better off running a super charger or traditional turbo system. I surely wouldn't use that thing.

Posted by: Frogman

That's just it.

In the Mark VIII's, there is no room in the engine compartment for turbos. This is a viable option, since.. well... since NO ONE makes a supercharger kit for the mark VIII's yet.

Posted by: Dr. Paul

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frogman

In the Mark VIII's, there is no room in the engine compartment for turbos. This is a viable option, since.. well... since NO ONE makes a supercharger kit for the mark VIII's yet.

I thought the 98 Cobra S-trim kit would bolt up with some modifications?

Posted by: Frogman

Im sure it would, as would an autorotor, or even turbos. But you sir said it... "with some modifications"

Wasn't there an LvC member who had installed a vortech on his mark?

Posted by: Dr. Paul

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frogman

Im sure it would, as would an autorotor, or even turbos. But you sir said it... "with some modifications"

Wasn't there an LvC member who had installed a vortech on his mark?

Let me clarify, when I mentioned "some modifications" I understood it to be nothing particularly challenging. However, I don't really know since I'm a Mustang guy, not a Lincoln guy, and my expertise is lacking.

Paul.

Posted by: m_maker

99 cobra s-trim kit is a direct bolt on for any 2nd gen mark viii. It's no secret.
96-98 kits work as well but require a 96-98 cobra intake or 99 cobra vortech piping to match up with the TB.

But what's with the hate on the 05 ? My tuner has no issues with the tuning of the new 05-06 GTs.

Posted by: Frogman

In that case, I duly stand corrected.

But I still like Turbos better.

Posted by: turborich

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frogman

That's just it.

In the Mark VIII's, there is no room in the engine compartment for turbos. This is a viable option, since.. well... since NO ONE makes a supercharger kit for the mark VIII's yet.

With some modification, ok then what is this remote turbo thing? looks like a lot of modification to me plus who wants a couple of turbos hanging off their exhaust pipes? looks like about a minute to steal em. Just looks like a crappy solution. I'm sure their are better ways... like a custom turbo kit, supercharger modified to work or nos.

Posted by: Frogman

[rant]

Well sir... If you are so SURE, why don't you come up with a "better way"?

I mean, it's easy to sit in front of a computer screen and say "I'm sure their (sic) are better ways".

Yes, I am sure there are better ways, but until someone gets off their butt and develops this better way, some people do with what's available.

No disrespect, and I don't mean to offend my fellow mark VIII owners, but some of you strike me as downright stingy and or cheap... and I'm not the olny one who fels this way, but in the interest of confidentiality, I will keep those names to myself.

Someone comes up with an idea, a lot of people may be for it, then when the time comes, you find only a fraction of the "interested" ones that will actually pay to have the part, kit, whatever. How long has this Mark VIII supercharger project been going on? Why is it not done yet? Because a lot of people are just that, dreamers. When it comes to ponying up the money for a deposit, or something to show they are TRULY interested, guess what? They don't do it.

I'm betting that if I were to get 20 people interested and who would ante up the $$, I could have a 2.2 Liter Autorotor kit done for the Mark VIII's in a matter of 6 months.

But the problem is, not too many people want to/can afford such expensive mods. Sure, they'll dream about it, and say they are interested, but alas, I fall back to what I said earlier.

/rant

Sorry bout the rant, but damn! everyone has a "better way", yet no one is doing jack about it.

Posted by: John Hubertz

For most of us, a turbo installation would be better than a supercharger....superchargers are designed for short bursts, which is why race cars other then dragsters don't use them. Turbos are a consistent, sustainable source of increased HP.... The issue is charge-air preheating I guess - I don't know the physics but it is so much an issue that Ford has actually used an AC system-cooled supercharger intake intercooler on some truck installations.

Turbos can provide the kind of sustained ooomph that a lux car will truly benefit from....

$5000 - $8000? To h*ll with that....buy a couple of used Saab 9000 setups (almost bulletproof) and get building! The intercoolers would be a HUGE issue for us... not enough frontal airflow as it is.

Posted by: Frogman

You Sir are correct and at the same time, wrong, IMHO.

Superchargers, like a screw type Auto Rotor has a "flat" (more or less) torque curve from around 2700RPM to redline, depending on the setup.

Turbos (depending on size, setup, etc) will achieve full boost at around 3000 RPM.

The A/C setup is used by FORD in the Lightning truck, and if you read up on it, you will see it is designed to cool the air for a short time. I can't remember the exact maximum time, but I am pretty sure it's under one minute. After that, the air cooling is taken up by the intercooler alone, until the A/C cooling system "recharges".

Now mind you, I come from the supercharger crowd, but I've done quite a bit of research on the Turbo situation. I'm not Gung Ho' about turbos, but until something better comes along, it is my humble opinion that turbos will have to do on our Marks.

On a remote mount setup an IC may not be needed, since the air charge piping runs for 12+ feet under the car before it goes into the intake manifold. Does that mean an Ic is absolutely NOT necessary? No, ofcourse not. But the length of the charge piping surely, will help cool the intake charge. Deffinitely not as much as an IC, but still.

Push come to shove, a little methanol injection never hurt.

Posted by: mhinchley

I have owned a SC'd 89 Mustang, a Grand National, a heavily built 355 cu S10, and many 60's-70's Cutlass, Challenger, Chevelle, etc cars. I prefered the Mustang of all. Reason being, parts were readily available, and power was available where ever wanted. All you needed do was downshift a gear and away you went. The GN was a close second...........but being an automatic.........you needed to be in the right rpm range for it to really take off. And even down shifting the auto did not work as well as the 5 speed. So with the Mustang parts being affordable, combined with getting 18 mpg average, with 450-500 hp available...........and a 5 spd.............I just feel it is the most bang for the buck. These Marks are jsut too expensive to make fast. And even when you spend it, there is a Mustang or Camaro or Corvette around the corner with half as much in it, that will badly beat you. And I am a Mark lover. This is my 2nd one. But the parts price do not justify the cost. I just enjoy the car for what it was made for. Luxury Sports Coupe type car.

Posted by: John Hubertz

Geez I'd love to see someone build one - the Saab low-velocity 9000 turbos would be PERFECT - the displacement and torque curve characteristics of that engine mean the match would be just about exact....

We already have knock sensors and tons of 1/2 a 4.6 technology you could swap from a Mustang SVO...

Posted by: Frogman

I know a couple of people working on a Remote mount TT setup.

Posted by: turborich

I have seen plenty of mark VIII's on the web with a centrifical type supercharger on them, they dont flatten out. Its basicly a turbo thats turned by a belt vs. exhaust. There is a guy here in town who did a totally custom turbo set-up on a mark. There are other ways, thats all that i'm saying. If your going to do it then do it right. but each of us has our own oppinion and that makes for a good discussion.

Posted by: Greenmachine

thats why god invented nitrous!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: DonLino

Ponyfreak is supposed to start work on a tt setup. The real problem I see is space. God damn engine is so huge, plus little space behind the bumper to mount turbos. Mustangs always had it good in this category, lots of space. Someone was mentioning an issue with a intercooler. Use a vortech water to air intercooler. A heat exchanger is much smaller than a air-air intercooler. As frogman mentioned people in the lincoln crowd are too afraid to mod. I doubt any seriousness will be payed to turbos. The only ones you will see are custom setups. You gotta ask how much HP you need.
Think about it this way, 600-700hp will cost at least 10,000, that is on the cheap side. You need:
turbo setup- custom, and fricking expensive
built longblock-4-5g depending on parts
tranny-3,000
driveshaft-500
upgraded irs-500
intake, injectors, fuel pumps, line-1000
This is just the begining. IMO slap a centri on it and be done. Good power, not a lot of work involved. Of course what the hell do I know, I'll probably be looking at tt in a year.

Posted by: Frogman

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greenmachine

thats why god invented nitrous!!!!!!!!!!

I don't say this often... You are an idiot.

Don Lino,

10 Grand? With respect, we should be so lucky.

$3200 Ball Bearing turbos (Includes Wastegates and BOV)
~$1000 Custom exhaust and intake
~$550 Headers
~$1200 IRS (Gears, Bushings, Swaybar, Carrier Brace and Half Shafts)
~$550 Driveshaft
$2400 Tranny (Yes, I know, Geno sells them for 1700 installed, but he won't ship them. His loss)
$750 Torque Converter
$5500 Motor (Low compression Forged Rotating Assembly) + accessories, nots and bolts, and ofcourse, prepping and assembly work
$3100 Custom Head porting and cams (assembled ready to rock)
~$1200 For a custom fuel system (may or may not include injectors)
~$600 Cobra Intake
~$450 for a Nice Turbo controller.
$978 Custom K Member
$1600 Can't have all this power and no way to stop it. Brakes.
-------------
~ $23,078

I am not including little stuff like Motor Mounts, front swaybar, new wheels to clear the biger brakes, new rubber for the wheels, etc etc.

Yes, it does get expensive. That's why most people here are all talk and no action.

Posted by: Dr. Paul

You can make over 600 hp in a modular for less than 20 grand.

The uber-fancy ball bearing turbos are a waste of money on most setups. A GT42 with the standard bushing can get you over 700 rwhp for $1200. You also don't need to spend thousands of dollars on headwork for 4 valve motors to make power. They flow reasonably well out of the box, and boost makes up for a lot.

Paul.

Posted by: DonLino

Thats why I said "on the cheap side" Everyone

knows you can build a forged engine for about 5g, throw a good tranny and converter in, and blow it. That is an easy way to make 600. With little port work and cams (read not much money) one can make 600 with around 17-18lbs of boost. Of course everything needs to be upgraded in the driveline.
Bottom line speed costs-How fast you wanna go?

Posted by: MarkOfDeath

I dont understand why you would have to buy there kit, make your own

Posted by: John Hubertz

I'm out of the horsepower business....in fact I kind of resent the 280 I have....since I just caught a ticket like an idiot.

Hell, mine's mostly a pimped ride anyway, why I drive it like a fool God only knows.... live and learn.

Guess I'm getting old, huh?

Posted by: Greenmachine

Hey Froggy All I was getting att was the cost factor. $500 as to anywhere from say $3500 to as some say $30 grand. Thats all I was getting at.

Posted by: Dominus

No advantage in price, disadvantage in efficiency, no thanks.

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