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So why is the fastest N/A Mark VIII slower than the fastest 4.6 N/A T-Bird?

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Posted by: scott9050

I was cruising around on the TCCOA site and found several cars that were quite a bit faster than ours. One guy has a 97 with ported non PI heads of all things and a ton of other mods running 12.2's at nearly 109 MPH. Another on there is running around 13 flat with a trap close to 107. I have no idea who is the fastest there with no power adder, but why are these people further along than we are when we have the better engine from the beginning? As far as I know Geno has the fastest N/A Mark VIII here. Is it that our group has just not tried hard enough and has jumped right to power adders?

Posted by: phreakness

one word...

weight.

Posted by: 67Continental

also, remember there are many fast marks, not on this board.

Posted by: scott9050

But are the fast one N/A? Also, T-Birds weight quite a bit themselves, they are by no means a light weight car.

Posted by: MarkOfDeath

lincoln guys on this board dont really mod there cars, it more just exhaust and a chip here

Posted by: JoeyLincolnMK8

do not forget those Super Coupe t-birds, with those super chargers. so i guess they are not N/A right? unless, they ALL are LX's??!!

Posted by: scott9050

The ones I am mentioning are the 200 hp 4.6 engines in N/A form, one with non PI heads. I am not talking about Supercoupes.

Posted by: 98LSC32V

No one has really done all out 4V Mark VIII NA efforts. The 4v has a lot more potential than the 2V but it's twice as expensive to do internal engine mods.

Posted by: Bates93Mark8

most of the people here are here because of the love for their marks the looks, feeling, etc passion for a car that we could not live without. our marks stock turn around 14.6 1/4 mile an sohc thed chips, exhaust, solid air intake, will get you around the low 14 high 13 range in a mark. to get that out of a t-bird number one the weight a 1000 lbs less so with a 4.6 theyll get close to about the 14.6 to lower 14 range with exhaust but to get lower than that theyll have yo go to head porting and ferther engine mods to get that low...Last I checked t-birds woth the 4.6 sohc were turning high 15 range stock... a mark will blow a t-bird any day on any level from class, to sporty, to driving feel, to passion for a car no one loves thier marks like we here at lsc do...

Posted by: Stack

I agree with the above...

1. Big one is the Weight difference

2. The depth you have to go into a N/A Mark to get it where it would be with just bolting on a Vortech...

Posted by: scott9050

There is no more than a 200 lb difference between the weight of the 2 cars, the MN12 is almost the same chassis as the MN10 we have. A fully loaded T-bird can tip the scales at over 3700 lbs. I am guessing no one has really tried to get faster times out of the Mark VIII without the use of a power adder,

Posted by: MrWilson

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stack

I agree with the above...

1. Big one is the Weight difference

2. The depth you have to go into a N/A Mark to get it where it would be with just bolting on a Vortech...

yeah, definatly. If you were to mod a mark 8, it is just so much more cost effective to put a supercharger on top. there has always been a big market for improving the sohc, but not nearly as much for the 4.6, esepecially in the mark body, and certiantly not for cheep.

I also was looking at that, and there seem to be not nearly as many mark8's on there as thunderbirds.

Posted by: scott9050

If anyone could get one into the 12's N/A I can guarantee it will make it into a national magazine, as long as it's not a total POS.

Posted by: NYC LS8

Like said above...nobody here really mods the hell out of their VIIIs. It's usually threads about slamming a car to the ground or which 20s will bolt on. And the occasional exhaust/chip/gears thread, of course.

Posted by: mark0101

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYC LSC

Like said above...nobody here really mods the hell out of their VIIIs. It's usually threads about slamming a car to the ground or which 20s will bolt on. And the occasional exhaust/chip/gears thread, of course.

you are right cuz What we really need from our marks is a little bit more power. I'll only be doing a JMOD or a chip.

Posted by: driller

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYC LSC

Like said above...nobody here really mods the hell out of their VIIIs...

Nobody sane anyways.

Posted by: Bates93Mark8

There is no more than a 200 lb difference between the weight of the 2 cars, the MN12 is almost the same chassis as the MN10 we have. A fully loaded T-bird can tip the scales at over 3700 lbs. I am guessing no one has really tried to get faster times out of the Mark VIII without the use of a power adder,

my mark is at about 4600 lbs not exact but close to there

Posted by: JoeyLincolnMK8

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bates93Mark8

my mark is at about 4600 lbs not exact but close to there

no way a mark viii is 4600 lbs, or close to it. the mark viii is usually 3700-3800 lbs roughly!

Posted by: JoeyLincolnMK8

eh... i was somewhat close!
check it out
http://www.mark8.00freehost.com/specsmain.html

Posted by: buddylee

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeyLincolnMK8

eh... i was somewhat close!
check it out
http://www.mark8.00freehost.com/specsmain.html

great info ! more than I've seen anywere!!

95 lb of wire in this car crazy

Posted by: 98LSC32V

Wow... I didn't know that different year Mark VIII's had different compression ratios? According to that site, the 95 and 96 LSC have the highest ratio 9.9:1
compared to 9.8:1 in the 1st gen non LSC and all 2nd gen LSC or not have 9.85:1. My question is, how is this possible if all Mark VIII's have the same pistons and rods? If this info is accurate, my 95 LSC has higher compression that 96-01 Cobras...

Posted by: WhiteLightnin'LSC

Quote:

Originally Posted by 95LSC32V

Wow... I didn't know that different year Mark VIII's had different compression ratios? According to that site, the 95 and 96 LSC have the highest ratio 9.9:1
compared to 9.8:1 in the 1st gen non LSC and all 2nd gen LSC or not have 9.85:1. My question is, how is this possible if all Mark VIII's have the same pistons and rods? If this info is accurate, my 95 LSC has higher compression that 96-01 Cobras...

That chart also says that the '97-'98 Mark VIIIs took 10% of the weight off the front of the car, I don't believe that.

Posted by: 98LSC32V

All the other information looks very credible... and is very complete! The technical information that he has about the 4.6 dohc can only come from an expert on this topic...

Posted by: JoeyLincolnMK8

yeah he defiantly did a lot of research without a doubt. the site is a good read as well.

Posted by: scott9050

Unfortunately he's used up his bandwidth limit.

Posted by: JoeyLincolnMK8

yeah that happens sometimes... probably be back up in 2-3 days or so.

Posted by: Stack

Thats a pretty complete chart there!

Now if some could do that with HP and MODs and the VIII...

Posted by: DynoDaddy

I have a mark VIII that can run mid 12's in the 1/4 N/a. I have not had it down the track yet. It made 500+rwhp with 8psi boost.

Posted by: YouthKwest

Quote:

Originally Posted by DynoDaddy

I have a mark VIII that can run mid 12's in the 1/4 N/a. I have not had it down the track yet. It made 500+rwhp with 8psi boost.

I am trying to understand the 8psi boost to a car that is normally aspirated. Sounds like you have a super charger...which would not be normally aspirated.

Posted by: MarkOfDeath

its not normally aspirated lol, he says he has one that could run mid 12s and w/ a SC it made 500+

Posted by: Bluesman73

My '73 Bonneville weighs 4600lbs. There is now way these cars can weight that much and it looks as if the charts prove that. Thanks Joey.

Posted by: Black87LSC

Quote:

Originally Posted by YouthKwest

I am trying to understand the 8psi boost to a car that is normally aspirated. Sounds like you have a super charger...which would not be normally aspirated.

WTF???

Posted by: JoeyLincolnMK8

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluesman73

My '73 Bonneville weighs 4600lbs. There is now way these cars can weight that much and it looks as if the charts prove that. Thanks Joey.

hey no problem bro, always here to help

Posted by: jdlmkviii

In my opinion...

There's probably just flat out more T-Birds than Mark VIII's on the road period. Also take a look at what kind of people drive both of these cars. I'd say out of majority, the Mark VIII appeals more to the senior crowd (I am NOT prejudicing for I own one myself and I think it's an awesome car). Most T-Bird owners I see are not much older than 50... I see A LOT of people my age (18-30) driving T-Birds, which are more in the car modding stage. I've actually NEVER seen a younger person with a Mark VIII on the road around here, let alone for how many Mark VIII's I've ever even seen around here.

I'm sure Mark VIII's have potential to just be disgustingly fast, but like I said, there's not even that many people with them around.... let alone people that want to mod them.

Posted by: scott9050

There are fewer, true, but with prices coming down I have seen lots of the younger set with them. All you have to do is look around the board to see. T-Birds are more plentiful, it might be one of the reasons they are faster at this point.

Posted by: driller

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdlmkviii

In my opinion...

There's probably just flat out more T-Birds than Mark VIII's on the road period. Also take a look at what kind of people drive both of these cars. I'd say out of majority, the Mark VIII appeals more to the senior crowd (I am NOT prejudicing for I own one myself and I think it's an awesome car). Most T-Bird owners I see are not much older than 50... I see A LOT of people my age (18-30) driving T-Birds, which are more in the car modding stage. I've actually NEVER seen a younger person with a Mark VIII on the road around here, let alone for how many Mark VIII's I've ever even seen around here.

I'm sure Mark VIII's have potential to just be disgustingly fast, but like I said, there's not even that many people with them around.... let alone people that want to mod them.

Bingo.

Posted by: Dick Hughes

I have a certified weight slip that shows my 98 Mark VIII at 3800 lbs gross with no one in it. Our 90 T-Bird Supercoupe is about 100 lbs heavier.

Posted by: Bluesman73

Well I'm happy to announce I finally get to pick up my Mark VIII in a week and I'm 28, so I'll be adding to that younger generation having fun with these cars. I plan to start modding as my budget allows which won't be much until I finish college, but I plan to do what I can. I would really like to get one of those wings before I repaint the car! We'll see---hopefully the tax return will allow me to do that.

Posted by: MarkVIII93

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dick Hughes

I have a certified weight slip that shows my 98 Mark VIII at 3800 lbs gross with no one in it. Our 90 T-Bird Supercoupe is about 100 lbs heavier.

Probably the S/C!

Posted by: 02LSE96LSC91SE84TC

Several things were done to try to keep the Mark lighter, the hood is composite not metal, rear control arms are alum. not steel, so is the diff. Most things I've seen the Its pretty close. A fully loaded Bird does weigh more.

Posted by: Calabrio

...when you car shop, compare the quality of the T-birds with those of the Mark VIIIs. Almost every T-bird I saw was absolutely thrashed. It was a big let down. The Marks had all been pretty well maintained, even the P.O.S's still looked pretty well put together.

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