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Gop To Launch 'white Flag'

(Click here to view the original thread with full colors/images)

Posted by: Calabrio

Democrats only have a “retreat and defeat” message on the war in Iraq.

EXCLUSIVE: GOP TO LAUNCH 'WHITE FLAG' DEM ATTACK
Thu Dec 08 2005 18:02:44 ET

The DRUDGE REPORT has learned from a top GOP operative that the Republican National Committee will provide state parties with a web video prior to release tomorrow afternoon that shows a white flag waving over images of Democrat leaders making anti-war remarks.

The ad is in response to the controversial comments Democratic Party Chairman Howard Dean and 2004 Democratic Presidential nominee John Kerry made earlier in the week.

A Democratic strategist who had the web ad described to her said, “This is way over the top but we have no one to blame but Dean, Kerry and others who continue to pander to the anti-war activists within our party.”

The web video advances the Republican contention that the Democrats only have a “retreat and defeat” message on the war in Iraq.

The video highlights the effect Democrats can have on the morale of U.S. soldiers.

One Republican strategist familiar with the ad said, “The Democrats, especially Howard Dean have a way of trying to turn the tables and say ‘that’s not what I meant’ – its just those ‘evil Republicans’ This video will make them crazy – it reinforces what they really believe with what they actually said – and that is devastating for the Democratic Party.”

Developing...

Posted by: TheDude

Lol.... How many conser/repubs cry in here and accuse the left of using dirty tactics that only hurt the country? (ie the 'X' over Cheney). Now the right blatantly does it.... Hypocritical to the core this is.

Also Calabrio, I'm surprised you posted this, I refer you to a statement you made in the 'John Kerry, The Traitor' thread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calabrio

When "statesmen" go public and make claims that damage the image of our country, they are immediately picked up by the foreign media and used for propoganda purposes. These people need to be very careful when stating things in public and take into account the positives and negatives associated with any comment. This is especially true during periods of war.

And while most American's don't feel like we're in a War, we are. Not just in Iraq, but around the world right now.

Don't you think foreign media will get a hold of this and use it to encourge the enemy? I ask you, why is the right emboldening terrorists and hurting our troops?

Posted by: MonsterMark

BRAVO GOP!

'Bout time I say.

In response to your comment 95DevilleNS, this is exactly the opposite. The enemies that your party has already emboldened will see this for what it is. The Conservatives are still in charge and will continue to safe-keep this Country, a Country that many hundreds of thousands have died for to keep safe.

There is no question that this country and its people want to be safe. This 'propaganda' campaign will expose the left for what it is. Appeasers that are willing to sacrifice our Country's independence for their 'bogus' ideals.

Posted by: TheDude

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonsterMark

BRAVO GOP!

'Bout time I say.

In response to your comment 95DevilleNS, this is exactly the opposite. The enemies that your party has already emboldened will see this for what it is. The Conservatives are still in charge and will continue to safe-keep this Country, a Country that many hundreds of thousands have died for to keep safe.

There is no question that this country and its people want to be safe. This 'propaganda' campaign will expose the left for what it is. Appeasers that are willing to sacrifice our Country's independence for their 'bogus' ideals.

Lol, thats a cop-out.........

The left does it they're traitors....

The right does the same exact thing, they're heroes....

Republicans = Hypocrites
.................................................. .................................................. ....

Feel free to respond Calabrio, unless you have the same exact sentiments as MonsterMark.

Posted by: MonsterMark

Quote:

Originally Posted by 95DevilleNS

Lol, thats a cop-out.........

The left does it they're traitors....

The right does the same exact thing, they're heroes....

Why can't you see the difference. The 'terrorists' have been sitting back and watching all the pussies on the left rant and rave. Now they are saying, CRAP!, looks like the GOP is back in charge and we are finished. That is EXACTLY the message that is being sent overseas.

The left LOSES again! When will they EVER LEARN? Hopefully never, as long as they are in the minority.

Posted by: Calabrio

Quote:

Originally Posted by 95DevilleNS

Lol.... How many conser/repubs cry in here and accuse the left of using dirty tactics that only hurt the country? (ie the 'X' over Cheney). Now the right blatantly does it.... Hypocritical to the core this is.

You're analysis is completely wrong. This is neither hurtful to the contrary, actually it's the exact opposite. Nor does it have anything in common with a supposedly nonpartisan news organization, for whatever reason, flashing a big X over the face of the conservative vice-President.

You a desperately comparing apples and oranges.

Quote:

Also Calabrio, I'm surprised you posted this, I refer you to a statement you made in the 'John Kerry, The Traitor' thread.

Don't you think foreign media will get a hold of this and use it to encourge the enemy? I ask you, why is the right emboldening terrorists and hurting our troops?

I hope they do.

But this has absolutely NOTHING in common with the kinds of statements I was talking about. Do you not understand the difference between a Democrat party leader saying, on the record, that American CAN NOT win the war in Iraq.... and the majority party saying "that guy is a defeatist a-hole who we make fun of?"

Posted by: TheDude

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonsterMark

Probably because I am an intellectually deficient, lib-wack, pansy-pacifist (I know, that’s redundant), spineless liberal (more redundancy), terrorist supporter, America hating traitor who wants to take away everyone's freedom and see America burn. Oh ya, I'm probably French too.

What is truly sad, if Iraq does become safe for Iraqis to live there and a stable free country is achieved, the Left will say, "Ok, we were wrong for the most part, but the outcome was worth the loss." If we have to finally pull out because there is no viable end to this war and staying would only mean more lives senselessly lost, the right will place all blame on the left for the colossal failure, even though the right is in power and is the majority.

Posted by: Calabrio

Quote:

Originally Posted by 95DevilleNS

What is truly sad, if Iraq does become safe for Iraqis to live there and a stable free country is achieved, the Left will say, "Ok, we were wrong for the most part, but the outcome was worth the loss." If we have to finally pull out because there is no viable end to this war and staying would only mean more lives senselessly lost, the right will place all blame on the left for the colossal failure, even though the right is in power and is the majority.

That is some very most convaluted and contorted thinking.

WHEN the operation is concluded, because of the eagerly defeatist statements being made, will be shown to be the weak spined party lacking any bold or visionary ideas that they are.

And you are right, if we were to be forced to withdraw, like in Vietnam, it would be completely right to blame the foolish liberal left wing for the damge it causes.

Posted by: Calabrio

Posted by: fossten

Quote:

Originally Posted by 95DevilleNS

Paragraph 1. You said it, not me.

Paragraph 2. Actually, the Dems are positioning themselves (notably Hillary) so they can take the credit and say, "See, the President listened to us, and everything turned out great." The reality is that your libdem leaders are invested in our country's defeat, and no amount of backtracking will change that.

You're just mad because the Republicans are using the libdems' tactics against them and calling them out for what they truly are: cowards. You're also mad because you know it will be effective.

I'll tell you right now, if I was a soldier in Iraq and I saw an ad like that, I'd be shouting from the housetops! Finally Congress takes action against the traitors!

Posted by: JohnnyBz00LS

You know what is really STUPID about how the GOP and the RWWs are jumping on the "dems want to surrender to the terrorists" bandwagon? How do you "surrender" when the war was already won?? Or was the "Mission Accomplished" ballyhoo just a stinking pile of BS?? Was the Rummy speech about how this is no longer a "war in Iraq, it's a prolonged struggle to wrench freedom from the insurgents" also a stinking pile of BS?? Make up your minds, you can't have it both ways, fools.

The ONLY people suggesting that we are "surrendering" by pulling out of Iraq is the GOP and the RWWs in this country. No one on the left is suggesting we "surrender", only that we hand the reigns of Iraq over to the Iraqis. To state otherwise is defeatist and undermines all the work we've done so far to liberate the Iraqis. The GOP and RWWs in the country just LOVE to point fingers and call everyone else "terrorist sympathizers" while they are the most guilty of being one themselves.

Isn't also ironic of how BuSh's speech a month or so ago that "we will never pull out of Iraq on my watch" was followed (within a day or so) by a statement by the Iraqi government that "Uh........ I think it's time for you guys to find your coats and go home soon, the party here is over."??? How embarrasing that must be for 'ol GW, he could't get the taste of his shoe leather out of his mouth for at least a week. Furthermore, talk about troop drawdown by the GOP ensued shortly thereafter........ AS IF IT WAS THEIR OWN IDEA!! ROTFLMAO!! What a bunch of bimbos.

Posted by: MonsterMark

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnnyBz00LS

Furthermore, talk about troop drawdown by the GOP ensued shortly thereafter........ AS IF IT WAS THEIR OWN IDEA!! ROTFLMAO!! What a bunch of bimbos.

Talk about troop drawdown has been discussed since the '04 election. Remember all the talk back and forth about the 'trained' Iraqi troop levels. 50,000....then 100,000...then who knows how many. Now the left is crying that everyone is trained so let's pull out. Bunch of hogwash. I just heard from a guy yesterday who was over there training Iraqi forces and he says it takes a heck of a lot longer to train an Iraqi than a US soldier. They are less educated and there is always the language barrier. In addition, Iraq has no 'seasoned' upper ranking officers to set an example, unless you call laying in a fox-hole getting thumped day-in and day-out tactical training. LOL.

As Bush has always said, we'll pull back when we are damn good and ready.

Posted by: fossten

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnnyBz00LS

You know what is really STUPID about how the GOP and the RWWs are jumping on the "dems want to surrender to the terrorists" bandwagon? How do you "surrender" when the war was already won?? Or was the "Mission Accomplished" ballyhoo just a stinking pile of BS?? Was the Rummy speech about how this is no longer a "war in Iraq, it's a prolonged struggle to wrench freedom from the insurgents" also a stinking pile of BS?? Make up your minds, you can't have it both ways, fools.

The ONLY people suggesting that we are "surrendering" by pulling out of Iraq is the GOP and the RWWs in this country. No one on the left is suggesting we "surrender", only that we hand the reigns of Iraq over to the Iraqis. To state otherwise is defeatist and undermines all the work we've done so far to liberate the Iraqis. The GOP and RWWs in the country just LOVE to point fingers and call everyone else "terrorist sympathizers" while they are the most guilty of being one themselves.

Isn't also ironic of how BuSh's speech a month or so ago that "we will never pull out of Iraq on my watch" was followed (within a day or so) by a statement by the Iraqi government that "Uh........ I think it's time for you guys to find your coats and go home soon, the party here is over."??? How embarrasing that must be for 'ol GW, he could't get the taste of his shoe leather out of his mouth for at least a week. Furthermore, talk about troop drawdown by the GOP ensued shortly thereafter........ AS IF IT WAS THEIR OWN IDEA!! ROTFLMAO!! What a bunch of bimbos.

Gee, Johnny, your rhetoric is getting nastier and more hateful. You're calling all of us 'fools' now? Man, you need to take anger management or something. I know you would get an 'F' in Debating Skills 101.

You just contradicted yourself countless times in your last post.

It was YOUR leader/traitor Howard Dean that said "This is a war we cannot win." just this last week. Now he's backtracking. Then tried to compare Iraq to Vietnam, which is just laughable.

It was YOUR leader/traitor Murtha who said we need to turn tail and run from Iraq, that our soldiers were tired and broken down and we were going to lose the war. Talk about terrorist sympathizer and chickensh!t coward.

It was YOUR leader/traitor Kerry who said that our soldiers were terrorizing Iraqi civilians in the dead of night, and that Iraqis should be doing that. Talk about a troop-hater.

The Republicans called such statements reprehensible, but I guess you think your boys are right.

BTW, you misquoted Rumsfeld.

You need to pay attention to what YOUR leaders are spewing.

Posted by: fossten

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonsterMark

Thanks for setting the record straight, although certain people who are totally blinded by hate and tunnelvision will never accept facts when they can fire away with ad hominem. "Pearls before swine" applies here.

Posted by: MonsterMark

RETREAT AND DEFEAT VID now up for viewing.

Posted by: TheDude

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calabrio

That is some very most convaluted and contorted thinking.

WHEN the operation is concluded, because of the eagerly defeatist statements being made, will be shown to be the weak spined party lacking any bold or visionary ideas that they are.

And you are right, if we were to be forced to withdraw, like in Vietnam, it would be completely right to blame the foolish liberal left wing for the damge it causes.

Typical Republican/Conservative tactic, never accept responsibility for a failed action.

Posted by: TheDude

Quote:

Originally Posted by fossten

1) My fault, I forgot to add the sarcasm emote.....

2) See my post to Calabrio.... You can say all you want about the left, cowards, traitors etc. But one fact stands, the Right will never accept responsibility for their own failures. If they fail, they resort to shifting the blame. It's like the kid who's face is covered with cookie crumbs and blames the little brother when his mother asks him why the cookie jar is empty.

If you were a soldier? Guess what, you're not, so you would have no idea what your mindset would be.

ps I am not mad, I know you get off on making people upset like you rant and rave when you think you've pissed off RavenEyes, but save your energy when trying to 'get my goat'. Just some advice, do what you will with it.

Posted by: JohnnyBz00LS

Quote:

Originally Posted by fossten

It was YOUR leader/traitor Howard Dean that said "This is a war we cannot win." just this last week. Now he's backtracking. Then tried to compare Iraq to Vietnam, which is just laughable.

Dean doesn't speak for me, nor is he "my" leader. IMO he's a loudmouth who if he doesn't watch what he says will do more damage than good.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fossten

It was YOUR leader/traitor Murtha who said we need to turn tail and run from Iraq, that our soldiers were tired and broken down and we were going to lose the war. Talk about terrorist sympathizer and chickensh!t coward.

Don't put words in Murtha's mouth, don't you EVER learn? And I'd love to see your chickensh!t a-s-s call him those names to his face.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fossten

It was YOUR leader/traitor Kerry who said that our soldiers were terrorizing Iraqi civilians in the dead of night, and that Iraqis should be doing that. Talk about a troop-hater.

Gee, then those videos we've all seen on the news of our troops storming Iraqi homes at night and routing Iraqis out of bed were all staged by the DNC? You are hopelessly clinging to a losing cause. Go right on ahead, I'm laughing AT you.

Posted by: Calabrio

Quote:

Originally Posted by 95DevilleNS

2) See my post to Calabrio.... You can say all you want about the left, cowards, traitors etc. But one fact stands, the Right will never accept responsibility for their own failures. If they fail, they resort to shifting the blame. It's like the kid who's face is covered with cookie crumbs and blames the little brother when his mother asks him why the cookie jar is empty.

And as I routinely explain, you're just wrong.
But, if you really want to debate this fact, provide an example of the Right refusing to accept a "failure, and then blaming their Democrat "little brother."

Quote:

If you were a soldier? Guess what, you're not, so you would have no idea what your mindset would be.

Lame argument, we've addressed this before.

That would mean no one who isn't serving in Iraq is able to discuss the politics and policy of the decision. And it would also mean that ONLY those people who have the knowledge and understand to do so. This just isn't the reality.

Soldiers aren't necessarily familiar with the nuance, detail, and history of foreign policy and national security. That doesn't mean their input isn't important, but it does mean that it isn't the only voice the needs to be heard.

Posted by: TheDude

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calabrio

Sigh. I guess the countless threads of the righties in here pointing the accusatory finger at the left don't count.... Troops are dieing because the 'traitors' are emboldening our troops....... 9/11 was Clintons fault (even though it happened on Bush's watch of the country)..... If I were to go and look at the threads from a month back, I could get you more examples. You even said yourself that if Iraq fails and we pull out it will be because of the left. (or was it Fossten or MonsterMark?)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calabrio

Fine, Fossten knows exactly what he would do and what his political mindset would be if he was fighting in Iraq. Happy?

But I don't feel it is a lame argument. Do not ask others to do what you would be unwilling to do yourself. Especially if you’re asking them to possibly die. Your opinion and Fosstens may differ.

Posted by: Calabrio

Quote:

Originally Posted by 95DevilleNS

They shouldn't count, because they aren't representative of what you're trying to claim.

But pointing out the failures of left-wing foreign policy isn't the same as "blaming them for our failure."

Quote:

Fine, Fossten knows exactly what he would do and what his political mindset would be if he was fighting in Iraq. Happy?

No, I didn't say that. I said it doesn't matter. An opinion on foreign policy isn't rendered invalid simply because you're not serving. Nor is it necessarily accurate just because you have prior service.

Posted by: fossten

Quote:

Originally Posted by 95DevilleNS

Actually, I have been a soldier in the Army and I did serve overseas, so I think I can safely say that I DO know what my mindset would be.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnnyBz00LS

Dean doesn't speak for me, nor is he "my" leader. IMO he's a loudmouth who if he doesn't watch what he says will do more damage than good.

Look who's waving the white flag now?

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnnyBz00LS

Don't put words in Murtha's mouth, don't you EVER learn? And I'd love to see your chickensh!t a-s-s call him those names to his face.

Boy you sure came to Murtha's defense quickly there, didn't you? "Say it to his face" - Ha ha you sound like Donnie Baker.

I didn't put words in Murtha's mouth.

http://pittsburghlive.com/x/tribune-.../s_399643.html

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnnyBz00LS

See, there you go, touting the "losing cause" again, following your leaders. You guys are really going to look bad when Iraq is a stable, staunch ally in the middle east. What will you say then?

Posted by: RB3

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonsterMark

RETREAT AND DEFEAT VID now up for viewing.

A very powerful, and very accurate, message. Our enemies, and our soldiers, are indeed watching.

The power of the corrosive effect the Left's continued harangues cannot be overestimated. I spent much of the last four years overseas, and I can tell you first hand that the John Kerrys, Ted Kennedys et al are widely quoted to support anti-American sentiments in the press in Europe and Asia. Once you leave these shores, there is no Fox or Rush to bring some balance and expose the excesses. (which is in a nutshell why the Left hates Fox and Rush) The media overseas is Left, and Further Left.

To illustrate, in the run up to the 2004 elections, I was asked continuously who would win the Presidential contest, by everyone from cab drivers in New Zealand to Heads of Ministry in Malaysia. My answer was always the same...Bush would win, and the election wouldn't be particularly close. The reaction I got was always the same...they looked at me like I had two heads. Everyone believed Kerry would win in a landslide, because that's what all their media told them. (proving only that the overseas Left is as delusional as the American Left)

That is why it is important for the GOP to finally be countering this barrage of negativity about the war, and by extension, about our country and it's foreign policy. The only hope the terrorists in Iraq have is to wait it out, hoping that the American Left will succeed in doing it's part to turn the tide in their favor.

Posted by: MonsterMark

And to see the left's disengenuous ranting because the military is PAYING for good news to be printed in Iraq. Oh horror of horrors, that is the lefts job and they want to make sure nothing positive EVER gets printed because that would make George Bush look like he is doing the job he was elected to do.

My dislike for the left grows more and more. For them to sit there and wish us failure so that in some sick way it will enable them to regain power is mind-boggling.

Senator Edwards, it turns out, was right. There truly are 2 Americas.

Posted by: FreeFaller

Speaking of that Brian...here's a story you'll never hear in the MSM. Just one more underreported victory.

New Iraqi Air Force Marks Major Milestone
An all-Iraqi aircrew flies their first solo mission
aboard a C-130E from Ali Air Base to New Al Muthana.
By Multinational Force-Iraq

BAGHDAD INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT, Iraq, Dec. 2, 2005 — An all-Iraqi aircrew flew their first solo mission aboard a C-130E from Ali Air Base to New Al Muthana Nov. 28.
"The flight marked a major milestone achievement by showing Iraq's capability of providing its own military transport."
U.S. Air Force Capt. Jerry Ruiz

The nine aircrew members are part the 23rd Iraqi Squadron, which have been receiving training at Ali Air Base. They performed an engine running on-load prior to returning to Ali Air Base.

"The flight marked a major milestone achievement by showing Iraq's capability of providing its own military transport," said U.S. Air Force Capt. Jerry Ruiz, Forward Operations executive officer at New Al Muthana.

New Al Muthana is the only Iraqi Air Base in the country and will be home to three C-130E aircraft. The 23rd Iraqi Squadron will move to their new home here in January.

Posted by: fossten

Ooo, look at that shiny new Herc!

Posted by: JohnnyBz00LS

Quote:

Originally Posted by fossten

I didn't put words in Murtha's mouth.

http://pittsburghlive.com/x/tribune-.../s_399643.html

Yes you did.......

Your words........

Quote:

Originally Posted by fossten

It was YOUR leader/traitor Murtha who said we need to turn tail and run from Iraq, that our soldiers were tired and broken down and we were going to lose the war.

Your link.........

Quote:

By Richard Gazarik
TRIBUNE-REVIEW
Thursday, December 1, 2005

The U.S. Army is "broken, worn out" and "living hand-to-mouth" from fighting in Iraq and may not be able to meet future military threats to this country's security, U.S. Rep. John Murtha said Wednesday.
"They're barely getting by," said Murtha, a ranking member of the powerful House Appropriations Committee and Subcommittee on Defense.

"They're drawing back on equipment buys down the road," said the Democrat, who was in Latrobe, Westmoreland County, yesterday to address an invited group of community and business leaders. "We are not able to buy the equipment because of the cost of the war."

Murtha, of Johnstown, Cambria County, said the Pennsylvania National Guard is "stretched so thin" that it won't be able to deploy fully equipped units to Iraq until next year because of equipment shortages and a lack of training for soldiers.

"They can deploy individuals. They can't deploy units. The equipment is worn out," he said.

Murtha said it will cost $50 billion to upgrade military equipment because of the war, but the government has begun reducing future equipment purchases to save money.

Lt. Col. Chris Cleaver, spokesman for the National Guard at Fort Indiantown Gap, said "there are some deployment concerns." But he said most of the 2,100 Guard members currently deployed with the 2nd Brigade Combat Team cannot be sent to Iraq for a second tour of duty because military regulations limit the number of times they can be redeployed.

Clever said some units had to leave their equipment in Iraq when they returned to the United States, and that could cause problems with training.

Murtha predicted most of the U.S. troops will be out of Iraq within a year.

"I predict he'll make it look like we're staying the course," Murtha said of President Bush. "Staying the course is not a policy."

On Nov. 17, Murtha, a Korean and Vietnam war veteran, publicly called for an immediate troop withdrawal, touching off a political firestorm in Congress that hasn't abated.

"We have to change direction. That's going to happen. ... It's just a matter of time," he said yesterday. "If I had my way, they'd be out sooner."

Murtha also is pessimistic about the stability of Iraq and the lack of trust between American and Iraqi forces. He said the Iraqis know who the insurgents are but don't always share their knowledge with the United States.

He also believes a civil war is likely because of internecine strife between the Kurds, who control northern Iraq, and Sunni and Shiite Muslims.

Murtha said he was wrong when he voted to allow the president to invade Iraq and believes Bush should admit that he made mistakes.

"I admit I made a mistake when I voted for war. I'm looking at the future of the United States military. For some reason, they don't want to admit their mistakes," he said.

Iraqis are fed up with the American occupation because of the personal toll it is taking on their lives, the congressman said. When the U.S. military took back Fallujah from insurgents, American bombings and attacks left 150,000 people homeless.

"A military victory is unattainable if you don't win the hearts and minds of the citizens," he said. "It's time to turn it over to the Iraqis. They'll let us fight there forever."

YOU SAID Murtha stated that "we need to turn tail and run from Iraq".

MURTHA actually STATED: "It's time to turn it over to the Iraqis". No words of "surrender", "running scared" or "giving up" as you shrubbies would like to and claim to hear a dem say.

YOU LIED

YOU SAID Murtha stated that "our soldiers were tired and broken down".

MURTHA actually STATED: "The equipment is worn out", "We are not able to buy the equipment because of the cost of the war", and nothing to the effect that the SOLDIERS are tired and broken down.

YOU LIED AGAIN

YOU SAID Murtha stated "we were going to lose the war".

Murtha actually STATED: "A military victory is unattainable if you don't win the hearts and minds of the citizens." The only way that could be misconstrued into a prediction of "losing the war" is IF GW had no plan of winning the hearts and minds of the Iraqi citizens. DESPITE GW's piss-poor track record to date in THAT regard, do you really think 'ol GW hasn't thought about that requirement for success, and has no plan to achieve it?? If so, you have less faith in you "fearless loser" than myself.

Busted AGAIN putting words in other's mouths. How's that show leather taste? I'd think by now you are tasting toenails.

Posted by: MonsterMark

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnnyBz00LS

The only way that could be misconstrued into a prediction of "losing the war" is IF GW had no plan of winning the hearts and minds of the Iraqi citizens. DESPITE GW's piss-poor track record to date in THAT regard, do you really think 'ol GW hasn't thought about that requirement for success, and has no plan to achieve it?? If so, you have less faith in you "fearless looser" than myself.

I finally reached the eureka moment of finally figuring Johnny out. Took 2 years but better late than never.

Anywho, I believe Johnny hates the military and the Federal government. The latter I share some of the same sentiments. But it is the Military that Johnny hates. The Military gave Bush the info. The Military laid out the plan. The military didn't get it right the 1st time. BUT, seeing as how it is difficult to hate a whole bunch of people, Johnny decided Bush would be the next best thing. I just love watching all the misplaced hatred towards Bush. The poor guy gets beaten over the head day-in and day-out for intel and advice than some find to be faulty. Only problem is, people like Johnny are numerous and incapable of figuring out that our military planners are to blame if blame is going to be placed.

Posted by: JohnnyBz00LS

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonsterMark

I finally reached the eureka moment of finally figuring Johnny out. Took 2 years but better late than never.

Nope, not even close.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonsterMark

Anywho, I believe Johnny hates the military and the Federal government. The latter I share some of the same sentiments. But it is the Military that Johnny hates. The Military gave Bush the info. The Military laid out the plan. The military didn't get it right the 1st time. BUT, seeing as how it is difficult to hate a whole bunch of people, Johnny decided Bush would be the next best thing. I just love watching all the misplaced hatred towards Bush. The poor guy gets beaten over the head day-in and day-out for intel and advice than some find to be faulty. Only problem is, people like Johnny are numerous and incapable of figuring out that our military planners are to blame if blame is going to be placed.

Are you FINALLY admitting that BuSh is NOT performing as a "Commander In Chief" and is instead being lead down the dark alley by the military leaders? Given his military training (playing "scared rabbit" to train pilots), I'm not really suprised at this. This only reinforces my disrespect for the man. I don't "hate" him, I actually feel kinda sorry for him. And I LOVE the military, it just saddens me to see them used as pawns and scape-goats by our incompetent "fearless loser".

Posted by: TheDude

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonsterMark

Huh? That's like blaming the the warehouse foreman for a company going belly up instead of the CEO, CFO etc. etc. Bush is the President, it is his job to do the right thing, if he is given faulty information he should be able to filter the 'crap' part out it out.

Posted by: fossten

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnnyBz00LS

Nope, not even close.

Are you FINALLY admitting that BuSh is NOT performing as a "Commander In Chief" and is instead being lead down the dark alley by the military leaders? Given his military training (playing "scared rabbit" to train pilots), I'm not really suprised at this. This only reinforces my disrespect for the man. I don't "hate" him, I actually feel kinda sorry for him. And I LOVE the military, it just saddens me to see them used as pawns and scape-goats by our incompetent "fearless loser".

Sorry, not buying it. Nice try at backtracking, but too transparent.

You have engaged in frequent and lengthy bouts of hate-speech Bush-bashing crudely disguised as a 'concerned citizen' who 'feels sorry for' him?

Ha ha, don't make me laugh.

I can picture you pounding on your keyboard and slinging froth on your monitor as you slavishly hammer your drumbeat of constant criticism and hatred toward Bush. And he never did anything to you. You are simply parroting everything you've heard from your LWW fringe leaders like Michael Moore and Barbra Streisand.

The fact is that you are SCARED to admit that Bush has had a good plan all along, and HE'S PULLING IT OFF, which means you and your lefty buddies will have to eat crow when it's over.

Look at the Plan Bush has followed so successfully:

1. Removed a vicious dictator from power
2. Restored freedom, schools, businesses, and hope to the people of Iraq
3. Introduced democracy to a country that was not free
4. Gone from dictator to constitution and free elections in THREE YEARS while our OWN CONSTITUTION ACTUALLY TOOK SEVEN YEARS!
5. Already power and responsibility is being handed over to Iraq forces while we keep them safe
6. All this while YOUR lefty leaders undercut, criticized, bashed, lied, and harangued Bush, he NEVER WAVERED, unlike all your Libwack senators who are now saying, "I know I voted for the war, but I made a mistake." (What cowards)
7. Even now terrorist insurgent leaders are separating themselves from the violent fringe elements and are asking to be included in the political process - even the TERRORISTS see the writing on the wall, that they are going to lose - WHY CAN'T YOU?

I wonder if you'll even show up when this is all over, so you can ADMIT to all of us that you are on the WRONG SIDE OF HISTORY.

Posted by: Calabrio

Quote:

Originally Posted by 95DevilleNS

Yeah...he's "Know" what information is accurate and what isn't just by special magic powers. I mean, why would the President rely on the intelligence of the CIA and other nations when he can just go on his on intuition.

Very well thought out, Deville.

However, it is his job to attempt to initiate reform in those organizations. Something he is trying to do.

But, repeatedly, everyone involved says, even if everything was known, the decision to invade Iraq would still have been appropriate.

Posted by: RB3

Quote:

Originally Posted by fossten

A brilliant summation.

Posted by: TheDude

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calabrio

No, I didn't say he knows what is accurate and what isn't. I said it is his job to filter and do the right thing with such information. I expect that from the President. You should too. If I tell you that Barry killed your wife and you take it upon yourself to shoot and kill him, then after the fact it turns out I gave you faulty information, who's more at fault for Barry's wrongful death? Me for telling you faulty information or you for taking me at my word and just reacting?

I don't buy the 'poor Bush was misled' bit, he is the President, he should stand by and own up to every decision he makes.

Posted by: fossten

Quote:

Originally Posted by 95DevilleNS

The elections in Iraq today prove that Bush did the right thing REGARDLESS of the information.

Quote of Betty Dawisha, Iraqi voter, as seen on the news yesterday:

"Anybody who doesn't appreciate what America has done, and the President Bush, let them go to hell."

http://thepoliticalteen.com/video/gotohell.wmv

I guess you would like to tell Betty that you don't appreciate what America has done so she can tell you to go to hell.

Posted by: TheDude

Quote:

Originally Posted by fossten

1) We have yet to see the outcomes of the elections. Only time will tell.
2) I hate to tell you, but one person does not speak for an entire country.

But anyhow, I am happy to hear an Iraqi speak positively towards America.

I guess all media isn't liberal afterall..... Would that be an 'OWNED' ?

Posted by: fossten

Quote:

Originally Posted by 95DevilleNS

Ummm...Don't look now, but the VERY FACT that there are elections being held in Iraq IS THE OUTCOME. Remember 3 years ago? Saddam Hussein, ruthless dictator? Oppressed people? Rape houses? Mass graves? Intra-Muslim faction hatred? ALL GONE now because of Bush's decision, which by the way, was supported at the time by your Fibdem leaders. Now they disown their own decisions and you follow in lockstep.

Listen to yourself. Denial denial denial. Nothing will ever satisfy you. You pathologically are unable to admit that Bush has succeeded in Iraq, no matter what happens, no matter how much time goes by.

Posted by: FreeFaller

Quote:

Originally Posted by 95DevilleNS

Actually to be fair you would actually say it this way...

If I told you that _____ killed your wife and based on the following:
He had killed and raped his own family before...
He had forcibly entered his neighbor's house and attempted to take ownership after killing some of that family...
He showed ardent support for other murderers and applauded their actions...
He repeatedly attacked police patrolling his neighborhood...
He offered rewards to murderers in appreciation for their killings...
He had made direct threats toward your wife....
Now would you be fairly justified in thinking that this person did kill your wife? Who would be at fault? Not the husband...not the informer...but _____ for being a low life piece of sh!t that the rest of the neighborhood didn't have the balls to take care of. Justice served. Irregardless of the innocence of one of many crimes.

Posted by: fossten

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreeFaller

Very sharp.

Posted by: TheDude

Quote:

Originally Posted by fossten

I guess you bought that "Mission Accomplished" hook, line and shinker huh?

If you honestly think Iraq is a success already, I have another bridge to sell you, Iraq is FAR from over, if any long term 'good' is to come from this war, it has yet to rear its head. The elections being held is a good thing, I will not deny that, but it is far from over and we have yet to see the outcomes of these elections.

Posted by: fossten

Quote:

Originally Posted by 95DevilleNS

There you go again, doom and gloom to the very bitter end. I guess nothing Bush does will ever be good enough for you, huh? You can't give him credit for anything good that he does because you are a hater. In case you didn't notice, announcements for drawdowns in Iraq have already begun. You obviously don't even watch the news. Even Wolf Blitzer and his crowd are grudgingly admitting that we are winning the war. Only radical pacifists like Murtha and Kerry and Pelosi are still pounding this "retreat and defeat" drumbeat. You really want to be on the losing side?

What's amazing is that you blindly attack Bush despite the mounting evidence that he was right, courageous, and committed to protecting America by going into Iraq, and the only reason you attack him so much is because that's what your Fib leaders in the Dem party and the MSM are doing. No other reason.

Talk about swallowing the hook.

Posted by: JohnnyBz00LS

Quote:

Originally Posted by fossten

What's amazing is that you blindly attack Bush despite the mounting evidence that he was right, courageous, and committed to protecting America by going into Iraq, and the only reason you attack him so much is because that's what your Fib leaders in the Dem party and the MSM are doing. No other reason.

Talk about swallowing the hook.

If BuSh was truly committed to "protecting America", why'd he get "F"s on all but one grade by the 9/11 comissioners?? Even YOU and your crapservative contingent here claim that WMDs were NOT the real reason we went to Iraq, and that it was to "spread democracy" and all that other baloney. While we've squandered our military and financial resources "spreading democracy" in another foreign country that was not a REAL IMMINENT threat to our security, BuSh and co. have let our guards down on all the other more imminent threat fronts (Iran, Syria, China, North Korea) and left our boarders wide open for infiltration by more REAL terrorists like those that attacked us on 9/11, meanwhile pusing this lame "Patriot Act" that has done little to increase security and instead is erroding our own freedoms. You crapservatives who buy this BS and continue to support this fearless loser in the oval office are nothing but hypocritical traitors.

Yeah!! Iraqi Freedom is Spreading!! WOO HOO!!!!!!!! That's really nice George, now how about paying some attention to your OWN citizens for a change, you friggin' traitor!

Posted by: JohnnyBz00LS

Wow, I'm beginning so sound just like fossten.

Posted by: MonsterMark

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnnyBz00LS

BuSh and co. have let our guards down on all the other more imminent threat fronts (Iran, Syria, China, North Korea) and left our boarders wide open for infiltration by more REAL terrorists like those that attacked us on 9/11, meanwhile pusing this lame "Patriot Act" that has done little to increase security and instead is erroding our own freedoms.

Simply pathetic.

Since September 11, 2001, NOT ONE ATTACK ON ANY UNITED STATES CITIZEN, IN THE WORLD!!!!!!!!!! [not counting Iraq.] Pretty fantastic track record if you ask me. Is getting 100% on this test an 'A' or an 'F' in your book?

Posted by: MonsterMark

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnnyBz00LS

Wow, I'm beginning so sound just like fossten.

Um, then you're arguments would be coherent and convincing. NOT!

Posted by: TheDude

Quote:

Originally Posted by fossten

I'll believe it when I see it, Bush can promise and announce anything and everything, but until it actually comes to pass, I'll have my doubt, which goes for any president. Doom, Gloom? I said that the elections were a good thing, I really should have said a GREAT thing, but that alone doesn't make Iraq a success, you call me a pessimist, I say remove the rosy colored Bush goggles you have on and see the whole picture. Bush stated in a press conference this week that 30,000+ Iraqis have died since this started and people both American & Iraqi are still dying on a DAILY basis, It's far from over.

You know, I don't generally listen to those guys, but I believe no one has said "Retreat and defeat", In fact, I think it was Johnny that corrected you in respect to Murtha when he posted Murthas actual quotes. It's somewhere in another thread.

Posted by: TheDude

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonsterMark

You're definitely right there, but our borders are not secured and here's the irony, if some other POS's do pull off another attack, you'll blame everyone but Bush.

Posted by: fossten

Quote:

Originally Posted by 95DevilleNS

You're definitely right there, but our borders are not secured and here's the irony, if some other POS's do pull off another attack, you'll blame everyone but Bush.

So I guess Bush gets a partisan 'F' from you. What else is new.

What's the point of showing the truth to you guys? It's casting pearls before swine.

Posted by: MonsterMark

Quote:

Originally Posted by 95DevilleNS

but our borders are not secured and here's the irony,

The real irony is the left whines and cries about the Patriot Act and then makes comments like you did about the borders not being secure. Let me clue you in. They will NEVER EVER EVER NEVER be secure. Period. Isn't possible.

Stomping out the a-holes where they live is the best defense. The left doesn't get it. I am so frustrated I am ready for a ultra liberal to become President so we can get nuked a time or two before we surrender.

Posted by: TheDude

Quote:

Originally Posted by fossten

So I guess Bush gets a partisan 'F' from you. What else is new.

What's the point of showing the truth to you guys? It's casting pearls before swine.

Did I say that? Come on now, if we do get attacked again while Bush is in office, you wouldn't hold him accountable at all. It would be someone else's fault, faulty information given, Clinton's fault etc. etc.

Posted by: TheDude

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonsterMark

Relax man; this is just a debate forum..... I don't want some jelly spine far lefty either. I'd be happy with someone closer to the middle with a leaning to the left, but I would accept a leaner to the right if he would do the better job..

Posted by: fossten

Quote:

Originally Posted by 95DevilleNS

Ok, smart guy, answer this question:

The Democrats in Congress (and a few Republicans) just filibustered the Patriot Act, effectively putting the "Gorelick Wall" back up and putting our national security back to where it was before 9/11. President Bush opposes this move, saying we need the Patriot Act to keep our intelligence channels open.

If we get hit by terrorists again in light of this information, who would YOU hold accountable?

Posted by: MonsterMark

Quote:

Originally Posted by fossten

The Democrats in Congress (and a few Republicans) just filibustered the Patriot Act, effectively putting the "Gorelick Wall" back up and putting our national security back to where it was before 9/11.

Watch the news tomorrow.

All the headlines will read:

Bush goes down in defeat of the Patriot Act.

then..

Bush signs secret legislation that spies on US citizens. The guy that leaked this crap has a book out on 10 days. What a surprise. Will wind up on 60 Minutes next week.

Where is the news on the HUGELY successful Iraq election? US Today couldn't even put 1 ARTICLE on Page 1. Had to bury it. Why? Because it was good news for all Americans and the Administration.

Today our national security was damaged and it will be hailed as a great day for the Country. We are less secure now.

I AM GOING HELL BENT FOR LEATHER TO DEFEAT OUR ENEMY. THE ENEMY WITHIN! THE DEMOCRATS AND THE LIBERAL MAINSTREAM MEDIA THAT SEEKS TO DESTROY THIS GREAT COUNTRY. Forget Iraq. We have our own war that needs to be fought right here in our own Country. The people on the left in this country are more dangerous than the nutcases in the middle east.

Sorry. No more mister nice guy. Happy Holidays, hillary, torture, terrorism, etc; the left can kiss my behind. Here, I'll even drop trou for you.

Posted by: fossten

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonsterMark

I'm right here with ya.

Posted by: JohnnyBz00LS

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonsterMark

Totally illogical argument.

Leave your sunroof open one night. If it doesn't rain in that night and nothing inside gets wet, it does NOT mean you can leave the sunroof open all the time.

Posted by: MonsterMark

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnnyBz00LS

Totally illogical argument.

Leave your sunroof open one night. If it doesn't rain in that night and nothing inside gets wet, it does NOT mean you can leave the sunroof open all the time.

Whatever. We need to get attacked again and again for some of America to get it. Let's pull the troops out of Iraq and Afganistan, in fact, let's pull them out from all over the world and let the blood start spilling on US streets. Let's do it. I can't put up with this crap anymore to be honest. Let freedom lose and terrorists win.