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Single or Double X pipe?

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Posted by: jdlmkviii

I know that either way, an X pipe helps flow. I'm getting exhaust put on soon (within the next week or so hopefully) and I'm having trouble deciding whether to go with one or 2 X pipes. I have heard stuff about a double X pipe increasing low end torque, which is obviously what Mark VIII's SCREAM for. But the shoppe I've been going to said that he's never really heard of putting TWO X pipes on, and that it would probably restrict flow even more. So does anyone have any opinions, suggestions, explanations?

P.S. I'm having the 3rd cat cut off, 2 1/2" piping and the pipes are probably going to be flanged on the 1st and 2nd cats. and I also have 2 straight thru mufflers going on.

I apologize if this is in the wrong forum.

Posted by: ONEBADMK8

We started the Twin XX Pipe technology, it works, it in NO way restricts flow, we have been using this for 7 years now. It also tremendeously helps with the interrior resonence and drone. Call me up we have the ONLY ORIGINAL Twin XX pipe setup and our very own muffler lineup just for these cars.

Posted by: Sifrino3

Wrong forum. . . I seen two x-pipes on a M8. I thought it looked weird at first glance. But I have no idea if it helps or not. Maybe its for show. I dunno. . .

Posted by: ONEBADMK8

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sifrino3

Wrong forum. . . I seen two x-pipes on a M8. I thought it looked weird at first glance. But I have no idea if it helps or not. Maybe its for show. I dunno. . .

Its not for show, it's for torque and drone/resonance control.

Posted by: Sifrino3

Quote:

Originally Posted by ONEBADMK8

We started the Twin XX Pipe technology, it works, it in NO way restricts flow, we have been using this for 7 years now. It also tremendeously helps with the interrior resonence and drone. Call me up we have the ONLY ORIGINAL Twin XX pipe setup and our very own muffler lineup just for these cars.

Damn, if I had a M8 and you could make the pipes look that nice going down the car. I would buy from you in a second. Why don't you have an M7 exhaust line? Something you could polt up in the driveway or something. Stage one's kit could be from H-pipe back and stage two could be the full exhaust.

I have been noticing no one likes to go and peice there xhaust system togeather. Or deal with the Mustang pipes. They would rather buy one kit that they know will work with no problems. . .

Posted by: ONEBADMK8

We have our XpansionX chamber ss mufflers in offset/offset for the VII's, always have. Our single or twin XX fits the VII's as well.

Posted by: jdlmkviii

Sure looks good. But I live in Pittsburgh, not so sure I'd want to come all the way out to New Jersey just to have an exhaust put on. And keep in mind that I'm only 17 LOL. This place I've been going to said they'll do anything I want for around $300-$400. And I already have mufflers and the X pipes are on the way.

Posted by: Sifrino3

Im talking a kit. . .

Posted by: ONEBADMK8

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdlmkviii

Sure looks good. But I live in Pittsburgh, not so sure I'd want to come all the way out to New Jersey just to have an exhaust put on. And keep in mind that I'm only 17 LOL. This place I've been going to said they'll do anything I want for around $300-$400. And I already have mufflers and the X pipes are on the way.

you do not have to come here, we ship the critical components and you have it piped in locally.

Posted by: jdlmkviii

What all is it that you'd send me? and any price range?

Posted by: ONEBADMK8

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdlmkviii

What all is it that you'd send me? and any price range?

The XpansionX SS LIFETIME mirror chrome poished mufflers (in the pic) are $99.00 each and the ss lifetime Triple XX-pipe torque chamber is $269.00.

Posted by: Sifrino3

Prices not to bad. Ever put two x's on a M7?

Posted by: JoshMcMadMac

That is a killer setup. A better question to ask might be how bad drone is with one x-pipe. If it's noticable, then it is well worth it, if you ask me, to run a second x-pipe to get rid of it. If it doesn't change much, don't bother.

Posted by: jdlmkviii

I'm looking for the "IN YOUR FACE" kind of sound. I want people to be lookin all over when I approach thru town.

Posted by: ONEBADMK8

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sifrino3

Prices not to bad. Ever put two x's on a M7?

Yes.

Posted by: ONEBADMK8

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoshMcMadMac

That is a killer setup. A better question to ask might be how bad drone is with one x-pipe. If it's noticable, then it is well worth it, if you ask me, to run a second x-pipe to get rid of it. If it doesn't change much, don't bother.

It makes a huge difference with two. The sound is UNREAL as well. VERY ultra exotic.

Posted by: ONEBADMK8

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdlmkviii

I'm looking for the "IN YOUR FACE" kind of sound. I want people to be lookin all over when I approach thru town.

This is it.

Posted by: MonsterMark

I agree. Geno'setup is hot. Step up to the plate jdlmkviii. It is a few more bucks but you won't be disappointed. Go for it.

Posted by: Sifrino3

Quote:

Originally Posted by ONEBADMK8

Yes.

Where is the pictures? Was it worth it?

Posted by: ONEBADMK8

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sifrino3

Where is the pictures? Was it worth it?

I do not have any. We sent the critical components out to MANY VII owners and they had it installed, everytime I asked for pics from each of them and they all said "Yeah, yeah..Ill send ya' some" and never did.

Posted by: Sifrino3

Well, you can send me a test one and ill make sure to take pictures!

Posted by: MAT88GT

2 x pipes? whats the thinking?

if this really increases torque and hp, why isn't everyone doing this? x pipe tech originated in nascar, where they still only use a single crossover. I think david vizzard did some testing with multiple crossovers back in the day and ruled it was useless...

why aren't nmra guys using 2 x's?

where are dyno sheets showing more hp/tq after adding an additional x?

Posted by: Katshot

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAT88GT

2 x pipes? whats the thinking?

if this really increases torque and hp, why isn't everyone doing this? x pipe tech originated in nascar, where they still only use a single crossover. I think david vizzard did some testing with multiple crossovers back in the day and ruled it was useless...

why aren't nmra guys using 2 x's?

where are dyno sheets showing more hp/tq after adding an additional x?

Took the words right out of my mouth.

Posted by: MonsterMark

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAT88GT

2 x pipes? whats the thinking?

Quality of sound for one thing. High flow mufflers coupled with a twin x and a 32 valve motor gets you close to nirvana. Some of us LIKE to drive around with the radio off, just to hear the music.

Posted by: Katshot

Yeah, but some engines take a little less "tweaking" to get them to sound good. A good old 5.7 sounds great with virtually any exhaust.

Posted by: MAT88GT

I can understand the sound aspect of adding another crossover to the exhaust system, especially on a "picky" mod motor. They never seem to sound "right"... I just don't see it as being worth the added expense and questionable power gains, idk

Posted by: Katshot

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAT88GT

I can understand the sound aspect of adding another crossover to the exhaust system, especially on a "picky" mod motor. They never seem to sound "right"... I just don't see it as being worth the added expense and questionable power gains, idk

Again,

Posted by: Katshot

Okay, I did some research and actually found some actual dyno testing of an "X" pipe. I'm providing a link to the page but bottom line is that while an "X" pipe DOES actually yield a tiny increase in power (1-2hp), it's true value is more in the area of sound tailoring. Read for yourself:
http://www.vetteweb.com/tech/0307vet_xpipe/

Posted by: 1wykdmk8

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katshot

Okay, I did some research and actually found some actual dyno testing of an "X" pipe. I'm providing a link to the page but bottom line is that while an "X" pipe DOES actually yield a tiny increase in power (1-2hp), it's true value is more in the area of sound tailoring. Read for yourself:
http://www.vetteweb.com/tech/0307vet_xpipe/

The only problem with that link is that they are comparing the 'H' pipe to the 'X' pipe. So the numbers on that do not do the 'X' or double 'X' any justice in HP ratings. That car already had a crossover pipe on it, so that is like comparing oranges to pineapples.

What a 'H' or 'X' pipe does is it scavenges the exhaust from the opposite bank. As the left bank is exhausting, the right bank is sitting stagnent, so the crossover pipe (for ease of defining) helps scavenge the opposite side so that the exhuast is not sitting in the opposite side so that there is basically less pressure to overcome when that specific bank exhausts, allowing for better flow characteristics.

Now, the difference in a 'H' or a 'X' crossover, is that the 'X' allows for better flow characteristics than the 'H' since the 'X' is more towards the natural flow of the exhaust. Where as with the 'H' pipe the exhaust has to 'bend' thru the connection section between each side of the exhaust.

Now, with the single or double 'X'...I have not seen any HP increase ratings, but I know that it did a nice job on my old car. The exhaust sounded really good....IMHO. I have not heard, that I can think of, a single 'X' on a Mark VIII, so I can not really compare either the sound, nor the HP/torque differences....if there really is any......the jury is still out on that one....it all depends on who you talk to about it.

I do know that with only the exhaust done on my old green car, the RWHP was 247 on a 98 degree day with alot of humidity that day....the actuals i am not sure of, but it was a hot/humid day. That is basically an increase over all of roughly 20 some extra RWHP (most stock Mark VIII's are around 220 or so). What the extra 'X' pipe did for me I do not know, since it was already on there when I did the dyno pull.

As for the price, what does an 'X' pipe cost?? Depending on where you get it, and the quality you are lookin for, they range in price from like $30 -$70. That is not that bad in the general scheme of things when you are performing an exhaust upgrade on a Mark VIII......or any other Mod motor for that matter. Like I said...the jury is still out on whether or not the second 'X' pipe really does anything for sound quality or HP/torque. Maybe someone can do some actual testing between the single/double 'X' pipe. (maybe I will do this, since my recent car I am going to do an exhaust upgrade to it, and I already have 2 'X' pipes sittin around.....maybe I can have the double 'X' flanged so that it can be removed easily, and have the single flange/extended to match the double 'X' length so I can easily swap them out....sounds like a plan.)

Posted by: Sifrino3

Sounds like a very good plan. I would like to see the numbers!

Posted by: MAT88GT

The only problem I see...in order for an x pipe to aid in scavenging/accelorating the exhaust gasses is for the crossover to be as close as possible to the collector of the header. The lincolns place this crossover too far back to take advantage of this, and thus only aid in quieting/balancing pressure. My guess would be that replacing the factory H crossover on my 00 ls with an x type wouldn't gain much if any hp/tq. And then to add second crossover back there...

maybe I'll add one of these to the ls and do some dyno pulls sometime
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...2725 292&rd=1
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...3497 038&rd=1

Just for fun, here's the dr gas site, they invented the x pipe crossover system
http://www.drgas.com

And you can find h vs x comparisons in the archeives of mmff or 5.0 mag's online sites

Posted by: Katshot

I think there's a little misunderstanding about the function of the "H" pipe, and therefore the usefulness of the "X" pipe and it's relationship to the "H" pipe.
First of all, I hear too many people talking about "H" pipes as if they were designed to actually FLOW any gases. They aren't. They are only designed to equalize pressures, that's why they are only designed to have a small hole in them as opposed to being the full size of the actual pipe used in their construction. For this reason, their shape and right angles mean virtually nothing. To compare "H" pipes and "X" pipes is actually not a fair comparison. They are designed for two different functions. Well maybe not totally different. The "X" pipe is designed to cross-flow AND equalize, whereas the "H" pipe is only designed to equalize.
The "H" pipe is mainly installed to smooth exhaust pulses and this mainly affects the exhaust note. The "X" pipe is mainly designed to aid in total flow but really only barely out-performs a basic "H" pipe. It's strength is in the tuning of the exhaust harmonics and tone.
Bottom line, there is virtually no performance based reason to install either "H" pipes, or "X" pipes but if you want to smooth out the exhaust note AND pick up a TINY amount of power, the "X" pipe seems to be the way to do it.

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