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Looking at 2003 STS

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Posted by: OldRelayer

After going around and around about what to replace our 98 Mark VIII with(we have had 5 Vii's and Viii's), I am landing on an STS. Mainly for its comfort, power, handling and it does something our Marks have never done, it will actually go in the snow. I am looking at one on a dealers webpage and have only spoken to them and not driven or seen the vehicle yet.

In the Northeast these cars are rare and even the dealer doesn't seem to know that much about them. It seems to have everything we want with the exception of a real keyless/Fobless entry like the Lincoln, which we like, we never have to carry keys or pass them around if someone needed to get into the car. Nissan has a magic key that you only have to have in your pocket to open the car and even start the car, seems like a nice feature, I don't think the Cadillac has anything like that, you have to fart around with the keyfob. The other thing I am not sure of is the outside mirrors, Lincoln has somehow achieved taking away the glare from headlings, I have never been sure if this is electrochromatic or what, but I can tell you that it works great. Anyone know if the Caddy has such a thing.

Now a more general question, what might I look for in these cars, are there any issues that some of them have, that I need to insure the one I am looking at doesn't. It is a 2003 with 37kmiles, and 2 full years of warranty, if you drive it gingerly. They are asking $24K, which I thought was reasonable and they are also offering what I consider a reasonable trade. They are very difficult to find up here, the lots are full of Deville's but Seville's in general and STS's specifically are very rare. We drove a DTS, I wasn't crazy about it, I think the STS would be a better car for us.

I would like to here from anyone that can give me advice on purchasing and what to look for and to expect after you own one, that is any special things to do or to consider. Just gropping around for any information. Frankly I have never been a big Cadillac fan, so this would be a big move but Lincoln just doesn't offer what we like anymore and we don't want to spend the kind of money it would take to get a good European vehicle. So, shot any advice you think appropriate.

Thanks
Barry

Posted by: brentalan

Jamler3 had a 98 Mark and got an '03 STS. He may chime in.

Posted by: lhheston

I think '03 was the last year for the body style, it looks great, they had the bugs fixed that I have in my '99. The only thing to verify is that there is no water in the trunk well. It was supposed to be fixed, but we have a thread on how to make sure you don't find a mini-pool in there after a good rain. It was a simple fix on mine. And, based on prices of repair parts for these beautys, get an extended high-coverage warranty thru your dealer.

Posted by: OldRelayer

Thaks for the reply and the advise on the water problem, just the kind of thing I need to know. You bring up an interesting point about the cost of repairs, I don't know much about the reliability of this vehicle, my feeling is that it would be much higher maintaince than we are use to with our Lincolns. I was just thinking, we have about 3/4 of a million miles on these cars and other than Tires, brakes and a couple of ball joints, we have virtually had no maintanence. One of the other cars we are considering is a Buick Park Ave, I suspect it would be a whole lot cheaper to keep than the STS, but not as nice a car and even the Ultra is far from a Touring Sedan, I guess if you want the toys, you have to pay the price.

Anyone with thoughts on the subject, please jump in and save me from making a mistake or encourage me to make the move, either way the advice will be appreciated.

Thanks
Barry

Posted by: Jamler3

Yep... I have an '03 STS... Hot Ride...

BTW, The water issue was resolved on the '03... Actually ALL the previously known bugs were removed by 2003 production... Car is perfect now!!
LAST YEAR for the body style... Only SLS's were made in 2004. The STS is
a hot ride... The one I found has every available option, including the XM Sat Radio, DVD, CD and Navigation... Very Cool... Go for it... If you don't mind, let us know what your paying so we can tell you if its a good deal!!!!

JC

Posted by: OldRelayer

Thanks for your reply. I think it was mentioned that you also had a Mark VIII, it would be interesting to know how you compare them.

I would be happy with any help on pricing. I thought it was a pretty good price, but then again I know nothing about these cars. I know they are very expensive new. Here is the car and they have committed to allowing me average trade on two trades. It gets a little tricky because the Mark, although a great car, is worth nothing because this is the Northeast and this car is useless in the snow.

Here is the link for the car.
http://maineautomall.com/detail.cont...1124&xLink s=

As far as I can tell it has everything except for the Navigation system and XM, neither of which I care much about.

Thanks again for your help.
Barry

Posted by: lhheston

Yeah, I wish I coulda held out for an '03. The STS is a blast to cut loose in once in a while. As for the Buick, that is a sister car if I have my GM body styles in line, and a lot of the parts trickled accross the line - I bet the buick has reactive shocks, traction control, and a computer "Driver Info Center" a lot like the caddy. Car parts in general are being made more expensive due to integrated sensors; Anti-lock brakes made wheel bearings more expensive because GM now presses them into the hub to maintain consistency in the readings. They aren't cheep for any car. Buy something you can enjoy, and have a ball! Incidently, I thought my power seats were broken once when the motor inside kept running, and I found out later it had massage seats!!

Posted by: OldRelayer

I have a question about the Air Conditioning. I know in the Fords, the newer models have lousy Air, something to do with polution, as I understand it. How is the heat and Air in the 2003 STS?

Thanks
Barry

Posted by: Kenwood

OldRelayer,
I purchased a 2002 STS in July (35,000 miles)...The car is now in the garage
with a piston problem (luckily it is still under warranty)...
While these cars are great performers---their reliability isn't good...All you have to do is read Consumer Reports (which I did, but failed to heed the warning)...

The price you listed sounds about right (especially if you're getting a good deal on your trade-in)...You might want to go to CARFAX and download a history of the car---costs $20, but is well worth the
cost...Unfortunately, I didn't download mine until AFTER I bought the car
(I only found out after I'd purchased the car that this info was available)...

(PS. I've owned a 1996 Lincoln Cont. since 1998
and have been satisfied, except for the moaning and groaning of the air suspension system)...

KW

Posted by: OldRelayer

This is suppose to be our last car and we don't have the income we once had, so we certainly don't need a car with reliability problems. But it is sometimes hard to know, the Mark had a poor reliability rating and yet we have had 5 of them and had nothing but good luck with them, so sometimes it is hard to know, if I listened to "Them" on that one we would not have enjoyed these vehicles, having said that I don't need a headache. We considered both the Continental and the Lincoln LS. The LS is a great car but not very comfortable for the passenger, which is where I sit, so that is out and they don't go well in the snow without special tires. The Continental may have a worse reliability record than the STS, have heard nothing but horror stories from both mechanics I know and owners, although the car would suit our needs quite nicely. I do like Lincoln’s, but I also bought an 88 Continental new (remember the rule, don't ever buy a first production car, which I did), it was a horrible car and only had it 6 months and lost a ton on it, but went back to another Mark. We have gone around and around about this. For the last year we have done nothing, just because there is no easy solution and for the moment we have two cars that work well, but we are hoping to replace both with one car that is a great summer and winter car.

Thank you so much for the reality check, I suspect these cars can be very expensive to keep when things go wrong and there is a whole lot to go wrong, but even with a 100K warranty, it still isn't enough for what we want, if a car is going to be buggy.

I may just decide to sink some more money into the Mark and go for a nicer winter car and call it good, not sure what we will do yet.

Thank you for your help,
Barry

Posted by: Kenwood

OldRelayer:
Your mention of "reality check" is just what I've gone through...Just before I retired a few years ago I bought a '96 Cont. that had 34,000 miles...It now has 109,000 and has served me well in comfort and performance---without any major expense and/or problems...However, it has been irritating to hear the pump (or whatever goes on) to keep the air suspension in the vehicle
working...(Also, the bumpers are now peeling)...Now it has been brought to my attention that this type of vehicle is very expensive to repair---as the air supension for EACH wheel cost almost $1000 per unit...

Like you mentioned, I chose to ignore the warning given by Consumer Reports
on the STS (actually, many of the Lincolns get a good rating from the magazine)...I figured that a car as expensive as a STS, when new, must be a reliable vehicle...I would not want to discourage you from buying a nice car:
My STS is loaded with everything---but at this point I've no confidence in the vehicle's reliability...

My lament: I am stuck with a ' 96 Lincoln, that will soon be in need of expensive repairs, and a 2002 STS that has a questionable engine...(I've now taken my old 90 Sable SW out of mothballs to drive around while I "baby" these two super cars.)

I've always considered myself a sane and positive person, but my experinece
with the STS has been depressing---and in retrospect, I wonder about my sanity---in throwing caution to the wind, when I purchased this vehicle...

Best of luck in your choice...
KW

Posted by: Jamler3

You have to read about the NorthStar... Gotta watch your coolent and Oil in the car. I use Mobil-1 and change every 3-5K depending on how hard I've driven it in that period. Engine gets hot. It was build to perform. Shifts at WOT are in the 6400RPM range. I had to get a Power Max chip added to my Mark VIII computer to do that. Top speed on stock STS is ~145Mph.

The key to keeping the STS reliable... The NorthStar needs to air out at least weekly if your not doing many miles in the car. It needs WOT to really help the seat the rings. They say almost ALL of the issues with the engine are because it is not used hard, and suffered from build up. (Not surprising given the "Cadillad Demographic") I get on an Intersate close by daily, only for a few miles but it does help. I've got a friend with a 99 STS with over 150K on it... Never an issue. (He also drives Garden State Parkway for 40 miles daily.)

So, reliability really depends on the user. These are quality cars we're talking about. BTW, $23K for an 03 STS w/36Kmiles is a decent price...

JC

Posted by: Kenwood

Jamler3:
Your point about knowing how to use the Northstar engine is well taken...The STS I bought had been leased---and the maintenance records looked good...I had no idea there was anything wrong with the engine until the mechanic at the dealer's garage told me...Whatever was wrong with the engine, was wrong when I bought it but you had to fully rev the engine to hear the noise---or listen to the engine when it was cold (it made a tapping sound)...
Apparently there is/was a recall for this engine problem...

Regardless, knowing what I know now---it was unwise (an understatement)
for me to have bought this car...But I'm stuck with it now...Perhaps, if I can
get it back from the garage in decent shape, and enjoy a couple years of good service, I will change my mind...

KW

Posted by: djKale

I bought a 99 with 77K on the clock almost exactly a year ago. I have driven the car 15K miles in the exact condition it was in on the dealer lot without a problem. Only maintenance I've done has been regular oil changes and a fuel filter change as recommended by the lube shop. They are also recommending a coolant flush which I will do next time since winter is setting in here in the Northwest.

I noticed a month or so after I bought the car that the pass. side rear heated seat did not work so you may want to check those before you sign the deal.

This may not be your cup of tea, but I just bought a set of wheels for the car and it has changed it's appearance dramatically. In the few days that I have had them on, I have noticed people staring an gawking at the car now, even striking up conversations wondering what the hell it is (emblems are gone).

The price sounds about right to me but be prepared for a dramatic drop in value. These cars lose their value fast.

Here's a pic: (this really doesn't do the car justice)

Kale

Posted by: MonsterMark

Ahh, some fresh Mark bait. Yumm.

Looks nice Kale. Good move on shaving the emblems.

Posted by: OldRelayer

Great looking car, the wheels and the smoked windows really make it look great.

The wheels on our Mark are a big issue, the factory chromes, which did look great, have a tendency to decay and peel and then leak air, which is that state of mine. One of the reasons I am considering a move is the cost of nice wheels, the other issue is the car is a part time car, really can't be used in the winter.

On the Continental verses the STS or more correctly in this case it probably lines up better with the SLS. After all that I had heard about reliability of the Continental the STS is worse. Actually I spent a bit of time looking at all the options in the performance sedan arena and they are all pretty bad. Making the Buick Park Ave look good in that respect, but even though I am 60 now, the Park Ave still looks like my grandfathers car, although from a practical point of view it is definitely the best buy.

After a year of bouncing off the walls on this issue, I am really no closer to a decision on a vehicle. When they still made the Mark, we would do all of this and then buy another Mark, can't do that now.

Emotionally I really want the STS, but if I look at it from the point of view of someone that will never have but a small fraction of the income I once had, I think it might be a stupid move.

Thank you all so much for your help
Barry

Posted by: djKale

The Buick Park Ave is a nice car, but I wouldn't expect any better quality since it's coming from the same manufacturer. I think there may be some hidden variables in there like the fact that most Buick owners are older and do not drive their cars very much. I think the same could be said for Cadillac, but to less of an extent (because of Cadillac's recent resurgence).

I can say that my mom has owned two Buicks in 10 years and never had a serious problem - both probably driven no more than 5K/year. I just took in her 2000 Lesabre recently to fix the cruise control which wasn't working. With her warranty, everything was covered, even the rental car.

Warranty should be something to consider if you plan on having the vehicle for a long time. I don't think it is logical to think you can buy a car straight off the dealer lot and never have a problem. With the Caddy's, you have several electronic systems which will most definitely malfunction someday.

Although, it is wise to plan ahead and play the odds to your favor. If I were looking for something reliable, I'd probably be looking for a Honda or Toyota, with very minimal options. But that's probably not gonna float your boat...You may want to broaden your selection.

Kale

Posted by: OldRelayer

Thanks for your Reply Kale. A month ago, I was thinking more of keeping the Mark and putting 2 to 3K into it and pickup a better winter car, a Park Ave with all the toys. This way would have a decent car for a trip even in the Winter and a very nice one in the Summer. I may be back to this plan, which puts me a little over 10K$ and puts me in a decent postion.

With this thinking, does anyone have any ideas on a nice looking but don't break the bank 16 inch wheel for a 98 Mark Viii? I have seen some nice ones but don't know where they got them or how much they were, I suspect that something nice will be well over $1000. I guess if I have one complaint with Lincoln, it is the crappy "horribly expensive" chrome wheels. The car is laser red and with nice wheels and smoked windows, it should look as nice as your STS, which does look very nice indeed.

I guess I will start another thread to see if anyone has any ideas on wheels for the Mark.

Thanks
Barry

Posted by: Jamler3

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonsterMark

Ahh, some fresh Mark bait. Yumm.

Looks nice Kale. Good move on shaving the emblems.

Hey Bryan... You may need a bigger boat... Having experienced both now...

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