Lincoln vs Cadillac Forums

(This is the forums archive - If you want to get back to the main site simply click the banner above and you will be taken to our homepage.)

Lincoln vs Cadillac Forums is the Ultimate Online Resource for Owners and Enthusiasts of American Luxury Cars. Feel free to browse through our archive - but make sure you make it back to our main site - Lincoln vs Cadillac Forums

Cadillac XLR : Cadillac CTS : Cadillac : 2005 Cadillac STS : Cadillac Forums : 2000 Lincoln LS : Lincoln Mark VIII : Lincoln Mark VII : Car Wax
Lincoln Town Car : Lincoln Air Suspension : Lincoln Continental : Lemon Law : Do It Yourself Car Repair : Lincoln vs Cadillac Forums : Mesothelioma

Back to the Archive Main Page

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5

Supercharged Ls V8

(Click here to view the original thread with full colors/images)

Posted by: NateRW21

You'd mentioned possibly getting an 8.8 torsion unit into your diff housing as I recall? How sure are you this will fit; I don't have the spare housing and various parts to try this experiment. I did get ahold of DTS (drive train specialists) and asked them about limited slips diffs... they said they couldn't even find anything that matched up to it close enough to make it work. Of course they went by spec sheets... I think... I'd definatly interested in this one so keep me posted

Posted by: 00HotRodLincoln

Ok so I made my 190 dollars for the m90 eaton and sent the check and put the money in the bank so im ready to start saving more to get more if u know what I mean. I had a bad day the other night with it in the rain and spun out on 520. I saved it by throwing it in reverse and getting away from the wall before almost slid into it. But anyways if I only had my traction control working it would have been different. But then again I think the wind was more to it than the traction. But anyways with this rear end you have are u still with the ls tranny too? I hate the 1 tire action in the back but I would still like to have my traction control for the wet days. Does your tc work right now with the sc? I know snow is bad with no traction control and with a sc on top of that its like comparing a brand new corvette with tc to a camaro without tc its alot different. So have u opened it up yet on the road or are u still easy on it? I want to know if it screeches on dry freeway gear changes. I just hope if I get into the sc action her that I dont blow my motor. Oh by the way I noticed you did the valve cover gaskets. It happens or will happen if not already to all the earlier ls owners. Cost me 600 when I just got the bastard from the dealership. It starts off with a missfire then you need new coil packs because they are drowned in oil and the fresh smell of burning oil and smoke coming from under the hood when your sitting at the taco bell drive thru. I feel your pain lol and mine still burns oil for some reason. Oh well I change my oil when nessicary and it stays up for a while and I just have to change it by the time it gets low. I miss my maxima with the whole 5 gallons gives u almost a full tank

. I bought a motor for it and am in the process of installing it. Just got to mount the motor to the mounts tighten a few bolts and its done. But anyways just thought I could check up and see how it is going. Thanks Mike

Posted by: J3FF

Quote:

Originally Posted by StinkinLinkinLS01

At least I got a solid update from ya! hahaha. Sounds like a lot of work! Hope it's all paying off...being able to drive a supercharged LS to work everyday must be great! ;0)

I love smartass people.

Posted by: Niteryder

Quik LS: Excellent post here!

I am new to the LS and have been installing SC and turbos on many other cars for years and it's nice to see someone documenting what's happening. In short, I'm glad I'm not the only one having troubles when I install SCs.

Anyway, it will be nice to see the actual numbers when you’re completely done. But, if you're a true car enthusiast, it will never be done.

I was a little concerned when you talked about driving the car after you installed the SC without a tune on it. Sadly, I have seen more blown motors because anxious installers were ready to “see what it can do”. If anyone is looking to do this soon, get a tune! If you car is not properly tuned and you’re applying boost, good luck. You can also cause major damage to your internals without even knowing it.

Anyway, this post is a nice read. Someone should make a new sticky post and remove all the BS here that is not relevant. Thanks again for the post.

Jes

Posted by: Quik LS

don't get me wrong - the car has had a 'fat' tune on it since day one. we datalogged several times - parked, running through the WOT, tuned, then again.

We then started on little 10mins drvies (no WOT), then more and more.

I've now done several WOT runs, logged retuned.

We had a MAJOR break through this weekend - working with SCT - we were able to get the right combination of strategy code and version of LiveLink to be able to select and record MAF_AD_COUNTS - a key tuning parameter that we have been missing for a long while.

The tuning has been the longest part of this so far.....

Now I just need the weather to cooperate..... it's 26 degrees and snowing here... (it could be the end of the world).

Posted by: Putter-GLHT

I'm sure you've realized this, but a way overaggressive fueling is just as bad for an engine as running lean can be. Too much fuel will take the oil off the cyl walls and you end up burning a piston (I've run into this on 3 occations at work). The other downside is even if everything stays ok, you end up with a ton of ring wear, just as you do if you have an engine that doesn't run hot enough...

I'm stoked about the blown LS, can't wait to see it in a mag.

Posted by: jwfisher

I've been watching this from the start... *very* interesting thread.

Not to push, but after this long project do you still see yourself packaging up a couple of these kits - with tune - to sell?

-Jeff
www.DrivingEnthusiast.net

Posted by: Quik LS

that is the 'plan'. the thoughts are kit up the custom pieces - with and without the t-bird stuff (M90, inlet, outlet, ....). That way people can use / get there own piece if they want (or not).

The challenge is to get mine done - tune and dyno numbers - then do a second one from scratch and make sure all the 1000 little things I did are documented well.....

If I can do it, anyone can do it, but I do not want to make it seems falsely simple and have people get into trouble half-way in.

As the weather is starting to warm up here - I'll start tuning again and try to pass my emissions.... Austin been too cold for my thermostat-less car to be on the streets...

Posted by: jwfisher

Uh-uh, this is not something anyone can do. You're doing a great job. Keep it up... we'll look forward with great patience to your results.
2nd one might be something to try on the later engine, too.
Or, kill two birds with one stone and do it on a late 2004/5 T-Bird. There's a nice classic yellow one off of 183...
Ford's own concept supercharged T-Bird below. The supercharged engine was discussed w/the media for both the LS and T-Bird, then never delivered. Understanding is that Jac Nasser has(had) one for personal use. Roush also developed a T-56 conversion for the car.

Posted by: Quik LS

yep - Geoff Knight (the guy who did the fab work for me behind the scenes) did a Jag S-type R conversion for a V8 T-bird for Pimp-My-Ride....

He was contacted shortly thereafter to build them as a one-off custom order for a Beverly Hills Ford Dealer.....

Posted by: jwfisher

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quik LS

He was contacted shortly thereafter to build them as a one-off custom order for a Beverly Hills Ford Dealer.....

Well, Pimp my Ride is not exactly my scene... but now I wished I had seen this episode.

Do you have a website describing these special 'birds that were reworked for the dealer? I'd like to learn more on that topic.

Shame about the DEW98 platform...such wasted potential over here. Only Jag made the best of it.. and got the funds to take it to the next step of evolution next year. This could have been Ford's equivalent of the Nissan/Infiniti FM platform is anybody in Dearbord had followed through.

Posted by: Justin00LS

I too wonder what all was done to the Thunderbird concept to get the 390 hp/ft.lbs of torque rating. It appears from the writing below that the headers were the only thing added to the engine. This leads me to believe that the stock 3.9L internals should be pretty strong!

FORD THUNDERBIRD SC CONCEPT:

With 390 horsepower on tap, the Ford Thunderbird 3.9-liter supercharged V-8 engine transforms the vehicle's character from a grand touring car into a performance-minded sports roadster. The supercharger setup offers peak horsepower at 6,000 rpm and 390 foot pounds of peak torque at 3,500 rpm, giving the Thunderbird concept car impressive power and acceleration capabilities.

Ford's powertrain engineers began the supercharged concept's transformation with a stock 3.9-liter DOHC modular V-8 engine from the standard Thunderbird. Then, all-new aluminum headers were fitted along with a Roots type supercharger to provide the necessary thrust.

"Achieving 390 horsepower from a relatively modest 3.9 liters is a testament to this engine's efficient use of technology," says Dave Szczupak, Ford Motor Company vice president, Powertrain Operations. "The raw power of this most powerful Thunderbird ever is intoxicating to sample, but our designers have made the Supercharged Ford Thunderbird just as exciting visually as it is to drive."

Posted by: jwfisher

In the end, there was one built for show, and alledgedly one built for Nasser to drive. That's all we know for sure. The show engine didn't even necessarily run... and Nasser's engine didn't necessarily have to be built to the usual longevity standards.

Presumably, there was one mocked up or built much earlier, when it was discussed in the press for the Lincoln LS (just after it's launch in 2000). But sometime in the year 2000 the decision was made not to use the DEW98 platform as the platform for the new Mustang... and within 2 years the DEW98 platform itself was dead-ended for the North American audience. Note that there were at least two show LSs built with superchargers, but not with Ford parts or intended for production (1 of them is on my site, along with the S' T-Bird and several other things).

So it's all moot from them...

Now we have Quik LS to build one for us!

Posted by: Justin00LS

Quick,
I would love to see that old video of your s/c car that was posted on roughly the 5th page of this. The link is no good anymore.

And thank you for keeping the dream of supercharging alive!

Posted by: clubairth

Ford's powertrain engineers began the supercharged concept's transformation with a stock 3.9-liter DOHC modular V-8 engine from the standard Thunderbird. Then, all-new aluminum headers were fitted along with a Roots type supercharger to provide the necessary thrust.

Has anybody heard of Aluminum Headers? I have looked at a TON of headers over the years and I don't think Aluminum would be a very good header material??
.
.
.

Posted by: jwfisher

That is bizarre... but most likely the marketing wonks messed up. Perhaps "aluminum-ized"...? Is that a word?

Posted by: StinkinLinkinLS01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justin00LS

Quick,
I would love to see that old video of your s/c car that was posted on roughly the 5th page of this. The link is no good anymore.

And thank you for keeping the dream of supercharging alive!

Good luck! Careful...you might get roasted for being too impatient. Lol. JUST KIDDING!!!! That video is pretty tight, I'd like to hear how the thing sounds though!

Posted by: Quik LS

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justin00LS

Quick,
I would love to see that old video of your s/c car that was posted on roughly the 5th page of this. The link is no good anymore.

And thank you for keeping the dream of supercharging alive!

No worries - I did not know it timed out.

I'll shoot another this weekend - as it looks like I'll be pinned to working in the garage with Austin's high of 30 degrees..... my thermostat-less car will not be going anywhere...

Posted by: Quik LS

sorry - never got back to texas this weekend... stuck in PA for another week.

Posted by: daves2000ls

Quik, when (if) you do a 3.0, will you be using the Kenne Bell for the Escape 3.0? Or are your plans to do that as closely to the 3.9 as possible? Also, I've read on Cougar boards that pre-03 3.0s have forged cranks, have you heard that?

Posted by: allkesh

When is global warming going ot get here? Dying to see the dyno numbers.

Posted by: Quik LS

my wife tells me it's 70-ish in Austin now.... so I should be on the road again next week.

It's windy cold where I am right now -Yardley, PA

Posted by: StinkinLinkinLS01

I knew someone agreed with me. Quik, I know this is going to sound like a dumb question but, why can't you install a thermostat on your LS?

Posted by: Quik LS

sure - remember back a bunch of page - I was overheating - bad.

So one of the steps in troubleshooting was to pull the t-stat - which fixed the issue. Turns out I had it installed correctly - but the aftermarket t-stats are much smaller than the stock LS. So I just left it out - which usually in Texas - is not an issue...

I will have to go back and address the issue - and likely redesign the current t-stat housing I am using to accept the stock LS t-stat - problem solved...

I am sick of pull the SC off the car, draining the coolant, blah blah blah - and since I'm travelling - leaving the car in one piece in the garage for an extra week isn't a big deal to me.

Posted by: J3FF

PEople have to understand that we are working with a pretty restrictive engine and ECU. It's not like a Honda, you cant just bolt

onto it.

Posted by: nickandersonLS01

As far as I know, Aluminum heads have been around for a while, my uncle has them on his 67 camaro. Stop hatin on Honda, you can't just bolt turbo/sc's on them and run them out the door, they have to be tuned also, usually for diff driving conditions. You should research things before you talk down upon them, recently there have been civics dropping into the 7 second range, I think I saw an article about a 6 second civic.

Posted by: Quik LS

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justin00LS

Quick,
I would love to see that old video of your s/c car that was posted on roughly the 5th page of this. The link is no good anymore.

And thank you for keeping the dream of supercharging alive!

here is a new clip from today - http://www.senkofamily.com/lincolnls/images/vid.avi

sorry for the quality - we have a digital camera - but when it takes video it does not record any low tones - so all the sound is very 'tinny' (which is funny because the car is so loud)

Posted by: GWL

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quik LS

OK here is a question from the uninformed. How long will that elbow last with that much flex?

Posted by: Quik LS

it's pretty common on 'low-boost' applications (5-7PSI). High boost has to use 100% pipe, bead coupled or welded.

Posted by: NYC LS8

Is that tube/rubber boot/whatever it is, supposed to get sucked in like that on decel and blow up when the throttle is applied? What the heck is it?

Nice vid, BTW. Very cool project

Posted by: Quik LS

yep - that is what George was taking about in the post above.

the silicon elbow connects to pieces of aluminum tubing - so in the gap between the tubing the vacuum or boost can be seen.

At idle our engines run about 18-20hg of vacuum (-9.8 psi) - so you see the elbow suck in - since the supercharger is not spinning enough to make boost and the intake bypass valve is open. When I brought the rpms up - the vacuum drops, the bypass valve closes and the boost from the supercharger builds - causing the elbow to bloat.

all normal - but can be used only on a low boost setup.

Posted by: NYC LS8

Ahh ok, gotcha. You'll have to excuse me...I'm hopped up on cold meds

Posted by: Putter-GLHT

Since the bypass is open the flattening of the elbow doesn't affect offboost performance any does it?

Posted by: Quik LS

you got it - since the by-pass is open there is very little draw coming from the supercharger side - just enough to suck in the elbows. This only occurs while I'm under heavy vacuum - at low rpms or idle - where the intake demands are minimal.

Posted by: jokken

nice Quik, very nice... that is a cool sound to hear looking at a LS.

Posted by: PM80

Just wondering how long before we might get some dyno pulls on this thing so we can see some numbers. It would be exciting to see what you are putting down and what we can expect when this kit becomes avaiable. I know you are still tuning so I figure it will still be a while.

Posted by: Quik LS

well - 'should' be soon...

I went for my inspection 'emissions' test last saturday - failed.
- no codes - good thing
- out of the 12 sensors they test - I had three in 'not ready' status - EVAP, CATALYST, EGR SYS

so I failed because you are only allowed two in 'not ready'. Since I do not have an EGR - we blocked it at the PCM layer - so I will always fail that one - the other two are more complicated....

We do not know if I failed because of not enough drive cycles or if the tune is blocking it.... I don't think I messed with the EVAP or the Catalyst - so I should be able to pass this.....!!!!!

Torrie sent me a new tune this morning - thinks maybe he blocked more than the EGR - I uploaded it and will drive this week normally back and forth to work.... hopefully that meet the drive cycle requirements - then I'll test next weekend.

The place I found was awesome - car guys - clean shop - overlooked some 'things'....

After I pass emissions - then dyno - promise.

Posted by: Putter-GLHT

Catalyst Monitor on a Ford will not run until all other monitors are complete, so if your EGR monitor doesn't run, unless you change the conditions for catalyst, it won't run either...

The best way to make an EVAP run is to start it cold and let it idle for 15 minutes. Its looking for a >6hour cold soak, a startup with low fuel slosh.

If you havn't completed a full drive cycle, you should have had P1000, if you had no DTCs I'd say you have a glitch in your tune as a P1000 won't clear unless all monitors have run...

Posted by: lloydrage

keep up the awesome work Quik

Posted by: HotV8LS

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quik LS

Thanks guys -
- no tire burns from me - I just put some Goodyear F1 GS-D3 on it - seem nice. They would dyno my car since the BG RE750s were past the wear bars.....

yikes - thatr's my 4th set of tire and 3rd set of brake in 42,000 miles.....

Lou, I also had the RE750's on and I switched back to the stock size 235X50X17. You may have a bigger rim but Firestone makes the Wide Oval tire in 235X50X17 & 245X45X17 at a much cheaper price than the RE's, even though it is basically the same tire. The way you go thru tires you may want to give them a shot next time....Thats if you liked the RE's.......Just FYI!

Posted by: 00HotRodLincoln

Oops I screwed up read the other post I double posted on accident

Posted by: 00HotRodLincoln

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quik LS

well - 'should' be soon...

I went for my inspection 'emissions' test last saturday - failed.
- no codes - good thing
- out of the 12 sensors they test - I had three in 'not ready' status - EVAP, CATALYST, EGR SYS

so I failed because you are only allowed two in 'not ready'. Since I do not have an EGR - we blocked it at the PCM layer - so I will always fail that one - the other two are more complicated....

We do not know if I failed because of not enough drive cycles or if the tune is blocking it.... I don't think I messed with the EVAP or the Catalyst - so I should be able to pass this.....!!!!!

Torrie sent me a new tune this morning - thinks maybe he blocked more than the EGR - I uploaded it and will drive this week normally back and forth to work.... hopefully that meet the drive cycle requirements - then I'll test next weekend.

The place I found was awesome - car guys - clean shop - overlooked some 'things'....

After I pass emissions - then dyno - promise.

Hey quick, I was wondering what kind of tranny are u using? Have u romped on it yet or are u still being cautious? My ls is giving me heck, it has this noise like a knock which I learned today is the torque converter and it is also burning or leaking oil. I had the valve covers done but I think the shop did em wrong or something. need to pull the coils and look inside. So anyways im wondering if that tranny swap you mentioned on the mustang is worth it? I figure knowing my luck im going to replace the SOB and it will do it again about 5k miles later. What would I need just the stang torque converter and tranny or some other stuff? Im planning to do the sc project soon when I got more money. I won a m90 off ebay and sent the check but he never replied nor cashed the check. So I figure it would be in my best interest if I have to pull it anyways to get something good to do it with. I was wondering on your project since u have to pass emmisions would it be hard to put the stock parts on it if you still have em and bring it back to stock and do the emissons then bring it back to sc if it didnt work out? My 240 was like that but I didnt get to take it to emmisions because the motor blew. Thanks, Mike

Posted by: Quik LS

well - I believe the rear diff will be the next weak point - so that is where I will be focused next. I have been driving fairly hard - normal - on it - everything holding up fine.

The trannie is next - after the diff.

Posted by: Quik LS

TTTTTAAAAAA DDDDDDDDAAAAAA!!!!!!

all legal like. I passed with only two sensors in 'not ready' status - EGR and EVAP.

I do not have an EGR - so we block it on the PCM - and that way it fails. The EVAP is the last sensor to show a ready status - so I am told it will always fail if another sensor does

now on to performance tuning - and then dyno....

I just got my new LiveWire from Torrie yesterday..... good timing,

Posted by: Justin00LS

This is VERY good news Quik!

Posted by: Putter-GLHT

Very nice.

Posted by: StinkinLinkinLS01

Nice work Quik.

Posted by: Roadwarrior50

Im really hoping that this thing does make it to a kit that others can buy. Its a pretty amazing job and I know I could never fab something like that on a car like this. Quik its kinda scary how much you know lol.

Posted by: PGA2B

What about replacement cams? I haven't heard anyone say anything about this. Can it be done? I know there are not any "pre-ground" cam and it would be a custom grind but can it be done and can the rest of the engine take a hopped up cam?

Posted by: HyeLifeLS

Posted by: Quik LS

Quote:

Originally Posted by PGA2B

What about replacement cams? I haven't heard anyone say anything about this. Can it be done? I know there are not any "pre-ground" cam and it would be a custom grind but can it be done and can the rest of the engine take a hopped up cam?

yes - i should be a nice lift....

I have a set of ported head with ground cams sitting on the floor in the garage - right now......

Posted by: 20BlackLS00

you find out what kinda power this thing is putting down yet?

Posted by: PGA2B

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quik LS

yes - i should be a nice lift....

I have a set of ported head with ground cams sitting on the floor in the garage - right now......

That's what I'm talkin about!!!

Posted by: Quik LS

Quote:

Originally Posted by 20BlackLS00

you find out what kinda power this thing is putting down yet?

not yet - we have more tuning to do before hitting the dyno - still working out an issue with SCT software and datalogging MAF counts

Not likely going to happen this month - I am spending three week traveling - including three weekends.... ;( so not much time leftover to work on the car...

and the one week I'm in town it's been raining...

Posted by: Drnaline

Congrats Quik.

Posted by: Iancusp

wat have ya been drivin latley quik
and is somone sponsoring u for this or r u doin it urself

Posted by: Quik LS

this car is my daily driver - been driving it every day now since the new year.

all good - no issues. I am now waiting on a new file from SCT to see if we can get all the PIDs for deeper tuning.

Posted by: Putter-GLHT

Did you ever get a thermostat or some type of temp regulation figured out on it?

Posted by: owlman

I nearly died in this car. But wow what a ride

Posted by: Quik LS

I believe so....

Here is the 'high flow' t-stat I'm going to put in, you can see how much more flow it should allow over the standard t-stat - but since it's 80+ here now - I'm in no hurry.

Ryan at SCT was working with me this morning on enabling Torrie's tune file to allow me to log MAF AD Counts - and it seems to work - so we went through a couple of runs today, logged the data and TOrrie is working on a new tune right now. I'll be doing this for a couple of days until we get as close as we can remotely....

Posted by: Quik LS

Quote:

Originally Posted by owlman

I nearly died in this car. But wow what a ride

that 2 to 3 upshift is nasty..... people won't believe us that an LS can drift...

BTW: the 4-ways are optional in Texas...

Posted by: gt95coupe

I would love to see a Drifting LS!

Posted by: owlman

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quik LS

BTW: the 4-ways are optional in Texas...

It was a 2-way stop! lol

Posted by: PGA2B

Got to see the car in person today and all I can say is DROOL!! It sounds awsome. I just wish the weather would have be nicer so I could have ridden in it.

Quik,

Props to you!!

Posted by: rubydist

Quik - great project and writeups! Thanks for taking the time to document all of this work.

I'm new to this forum, but not to modding - I have an '94 M90 on an '03 4.0 Ranger FX4 so I've been through some of the challenges you've seen. I have a couple of questions for you all:

1. I'm looking at water/meth injection to lower charge temps rather than the intercooler. Snow (and others) claim that it won't hurt the s/c to inject prior to the s/c (which of course is much easier to accomplish than post s/c). At least one poster in this thread claims that the meth will take the coating off the rotors. Which is it??? Does anyone have actual experience with this that they can share?

2. Quik - when you have the camera in hand again, could you snap and post a photo of the 'catch cans' that you have on the pcv line to separate the oil out of that airstream? I'd appreciate that.

BTW, here's a photo of my setup, just so you know I'm not blowing smoke anywhere...

Posted by: Quik LS

very nice.

I have used the Snow kits - installed them in friend Cobras a few times. Using them on the LS would save ALOT of hassle finding room under the hood for the piping.

However - IMHO - the meth does ruin the rotors over time - and you should install it post SC. then you are cooling the charged air - seems to make more sense to me.

The issue the guys have with it - running low, filling it up, clogging ...etc. Installing the air-to-air was a pain but now it's always there.

Another option is to use a water-to-air intercooler where the charged air passes through a rad that is cooled by a recirculating water/rad/pump combo. These usually are pretty small core and are closed circuits - so you never have to refill. This is how the Jag S-Type R works.

It's an exciting project - you'll have a lot of fun with it.

Posted by: Quik LS

Here are pics of the catch cans.

I used one per PCV tube so I wouldn't mess up the venting.

The only room I had left was above the PCM - so I built a bracket to hold them.

Posted by: owlman

Quote:

Originally Posted by rubydist

BTW, here's a photo of my setup, just so you know I'm not blowing smoke anywhere...

There sure is a lot more room on a truck...

Posted by: CJones16

nice pics,

so is there gonna be a small production of supercharger kits?

nobody has thought of taking the heads, supercharger, intake out of a jag s-type r? same block, but you would need heads, intake and the superchager.

Chris

Posted by: Quik LS

yes - the plan is to do a 'small' run - we are starting the second kit now.

The Jag idea has been talked about alot. Jag heads are very different - using a one-step VVT, different PCM, ...etc - only the block is the same (not even the rotating mass).

We looked at the jag SC setup - over $7k in parts alone - too much for a kit.

Posted by: Rhep

That looks suspiciously like the blower and plumbing from a Thunderbird SC... I like.

Great job on the setup! Looks sweet!

Posted by: rubydist

Thanks for the feedback, Quik. I'm seeing 60-70 degree temp rise at 4 psi and am planning to change the pulley to get to 6+, so would really like to lower that temperature one way or the other. Intercooling is a huge pain with the configuration I have - blowing directly down into the manifold...

Quote:

Originally Posted by owlman

There sure is a lot more room on a truck...

Yes, and thank God for that! A lot less gyrations than Quik has been through to make it all fit...

Posted by: Quik LS

well - you could go the air-to-water route - its a little rad that goes between the blower and the intake manifold. It's cooled with a mix of water and coolant - circulating with a small electric pump through a front mounted rad.

the air cools the coolant which circulates into the aftercooler and cools the hot air coming out of the blower before it goes into the intake manifold. They are typically only a couple inches thick.

Posted by: PGA2B

Quote:

Originally Posted by rubydist

Intercooling is a huge pain with the configuration I have - blowing directly down into the manifold...

Actually it would be much easier than Quiks setup due to the fact you don't need so much room for the plumbing. Its the fab work to CnC an intercoolercore. If you look a few pages back you will see my intercooler I had on my Grand Prix GTP with the stock M90. Granted it is a GM but the idea is the same. It would be easier to water cool a SC that blows into the manifold because you can put the intercooler between the manifold and the SC. I am planning on changing Quiks setup to a water to air for my setup I will be starting soon (THANKS QUIK

). I think routing the hoses for an air to water will be easier than the piping for the air to air. Granted it will not look as cool, but an easier install. I will need to get one of Quiks intake designs to modify it to a bottom blower and fab up an intercooler core.

Posted by: rubydist

Quote:

Originally Posted by PGA2B

Well it took a while to find because 'a few pages back' turned out to be page 10.

It looks about 2 or 2.5" thick. Unfortunately, even with all the room I have under the hood of the truck, I don't have any more vertical space - to do that I'd need to completely redesign the intake manifold to somehow imbed the intercooler in it... I'll have to give that some thought sometime when I should be sleeping... Yeah, I know I could put a hood scoop on it, but that's not my style - I'd rather suprise someone when I get on the gas pedal.

Posted by: Frogman

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhep

That looks suspiciously like the blower and plumbing from a Thunderbird SC... I like.

sweet!

It is. It's an Eaton M90.

Posted by: 97stscaddy

Quote:

My dream is to one day open the hood of my car (whichever car that happens to be at the time) and see a sight like that.

Great job, that looks fan-friggin- tastic! I dont have the patience to read through 23 pages of post, so I havent read everything that had to be done to get the finished product yet. But it looks awesome either way. Kudos to you for taking the time, money, and headaches to make that happen.

Posted by: Quik LS

Thanks guys.

I was able to get three good runs in this week - and resulting in three new tune files back from Torrie. The latest one is in the car - but it's been raining here for the past two days - so I still have more work.

The car is feeling better with each new tune as Torrie gets closer. We've been stumbling through working with SCT and Torrie on the missing PIDs for MAF Counts which seem to go missing every other tune....

Got my LiveWire working - and even wired my LC1 Wideband O2 into it... pretty neat. It cannot do the pass-through datalogging to LiveLink yet - so I still have to keep my XCal2 for that (for now).

Posted by: PGA2B

Rock On Dude!!

Posted by: Rhep

You even changed the '8' to a '9' nice touch!

I have an extra Eaton from a SC laying around, too bad I don't have that fab skill.

Posted by: Kelleyo

Here's to ya Lou!

http://jalopnik.com/cars/novelties/w...ils-251109.php

Posted by: donmega

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2001LS8Sport

I have seen some HORRIBLE nitrous explosions with wet kits...blows the manifold clear off the car. That's what can happen with puddling, etc. It's rare...but I've seen it. It's even rarer with a dry kit...and with the availability to tune for it with the SCT now, it makes no sense to add the extra expense and work involved to go wet. However, you need to make sure you have the fuel capablities and injector size to keep from going lean. With a small shot, you're probably ok...but the only way to know for sure is to toss it on a dyno and have the a/f ratio checked and make sure your MAF sensor isn't maxing out. Just MHO......

Just jumped in this thread, got a newsletter and am really interested in it. Anywho had to stop and comment on this comment real quick.

I slightly disagreee and thats only because its the nos (system not the brand name) manufacturers mistake of making all these damn wet kits like dry kits with single fogger nozzles and such. If your going to go wet do yourself a favor and plump the foggers into the intake , 1 for each cylindar.
If thats too much then I guess go dry \.

What Im saying is I have seen camaros with a single WET fogger pointing into the intake and Im thinking "are you f#cking serious??" "isnt that like gauranteed fuel puddling" lmao

I mean like a good 3" out from the throttle body and yeah I would setup a dry system like that but a wet system like that ??? You got to have brain damage or just dont know enough about nitrous to make an educated decision.

Just thought Id throw that in there before you get people regergatating your information about wet systems then we have 50+ people with blown motors from dry systems running lean.
Each have their own purpose and I will never run a dry system because I havent seen one with my own eyes ran sucessfully yet without serious engine damage from lack of fuel.

I can give you the number of a kid that had a nice rx7 blown up in 2 days of having a zex nitrous system on it, 100% by the book install with the smallest jets. Smashed 2 apex seals right into the rotors, couldnt even get them out. Rotors were garbage after that.

Heres how to do it proper
http://www.moddedmustangs.com/forums...jr-vt1702.html

And an alternative to the multi fogger setup
http://www.holley.com/02119NOS.asp

and of course how NOT to install a wet system even if the kit says so
http://www.musclemustangfastfords.co.../photo_05.html

ZEX SUCKS PERIOD
Build it yourself the right way

Posted by: Slow91z

Quote:

Originally Posted by donmega

Well let's get technical...You can do a wet kit without doing a full fogger kit, but it really depends on your intake manifold.

Example-My Buick has a high rise manifold similar to a Victor Jr. Style carb manifold...There's no place for the fuel to puddle cuz the air (and NOS-fuel) comes in the throttle body up high and then goes str8 down into the heads.

"Most" EFI style intake manifolds have many dips, turns, Etc which make running one of these single nozzle wets kits a joke...Problem is people don't want to spend the time/money on what kit your car really needs, and the nitrous company's figure well people keep buying these things, we have warnings all over these things, we might as well make some money on em.

Posted by: allkesh

Any UPDATES!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: StinkinLinkinLS01

careful...you don't want to be accused of being too impatient.

Posted by: Quik LS

Quote:

Originally Posted by allkesh

Any UPDATES!!!!!!!!!!!!

sorry - didn't see you post - saw Aaron's (I reply to him in a minute).

We've been tuning remotely - Torrie sending me a file - me doing runs and logging data, repeat and repeat.

I've got a new smaller pully on order to raise the boost up a bit.

I haven't been around austin for a coupoe of weeks - we are looking to aquired two more companies - so I've been traveling. The weather in Austin been very rainy - so the days I am home - I have not been able to do much.

I'll be traveling next week and the first week of June, family visiting this weekend - so not much happening....

Posted by: Quik LS

Quote:

Originally Posted by StinkinLinkinLS01

careful...you don't want to be accused of being too impatient.

Get over it Aaron - anyone can ask without a reaction - as long as they aren't a kid about it.

Posted by: 00HotRodLincoln

Hey Quik, Ok so I got a few more questions. First of all my whole ebay thing didnt work out so now I need to find another sc. But before I do this I need to make sure my car is healthy enough to do it. I have about 93k on the motor. I am wondering why it is burning about a quart of oil before every change. Also when I romp on it and it shifts at 40 it makes a screetch noise. I was thinking maybe its the serpentine belt going out maybe. Anyways I really want to do this but. I am wondering how much I should save up or if rebuilding the motor first would be in my best interest. I looked into cams but after researching I guess there isnt a upgrade. comp makes cams for the dohc 4.6 mustang but I guess it wont work. So anyways if you dont mind me asking. How much should I save up to do this so im not with a car in the garage for a long time. Im fairly good at fabricating things and assembling them but as far as the tuning goes its a different story. I saw your video thats pretty cool stuff and you did a great job. How is the power after all that work? Does it light the tires without the power brake after all that?

Thanks, Mike

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quik LS

Posted by: Quik LS

Quote:

Originally Posted by 00HotRodLincoln

I am wondering why it is burning about a quart of oil before every change.

using oil is never a good sign. something is worn.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 00HotRodLincoln

Also when I romp on it and it shifts at 40 it makes a screetch noise. I was thinking maybe its the serpentine belt going out maybe.

could be many things - not likely the belt. If you can reproduce it at a certain rpm, engine torque, ...etc then that's the clue to start looking deeper....

Quote:

Originally Posted by 00HotRodLincoln

I am wondering how much I should save up or if rebuilding the motor first would be in my best interest.

I have never heard of 'rebuilding' our engines. usually the shop either orders a new loaded block or a completely rebuilt engine. We cannot even order pistons, rings, ...etc

Quote:

Originally Posted by 00HotRodLincoln

I looked into cams but after researching I guess there isnt a upgrade. comp makes cams for the dohc 4.6 mustang but I guess it wont work.

correct - the 3.9L is unique

Quote:

Originally Posted by 00HotRodLincoln

How much should I save up to do this

good question - we are hoping to keep an entire kit in the $4500 range.... and offer pieces/parts to make it much cheaper....

The question really isn't the price - but more - can we get this to a point where it is reasonable for people to do it themselves....

Quote:

Originally Posted by 00HotRodLincoln

How is the power after all that work? Does it light the tires without the power brake after all that?

sure does. I do not own a video camera - so I have not posted burnouts, ...etc. maybe father's day will bring me a camera...? /hint /hint...

Posted by: Kulow

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quik LS

I do not own a video camera - so I have not posted burnouts, ...etc. maybe father's day will bring me a camera...? /hint /hint...

Well Quik, If I can find some time I can bring my camera over and you can light it up for everyones enjoyment. I can even host the videos on my website if you needed (which I'm sure you don't).

Time is always the question though, isn't it? haha

Posted by: Putter-GLHT

Crown Victorias, and 97 or older Thunderbirds were very good at squealing the belt when making the 1-2 shift. If the belt is really worn or the tensioner is getting loose the belt can slip during a shift due to the speed and the mass of the alternator, it will do a little burnout on the belt. I've even seen it break the front covers on 4.6's before when it pulls all the slack out of the belt and slams the tensioner to its top.

Maybe you'll get lucky...

Posted by: 00HotRodLincoln

Thanks for the replys so I decided to change my oil today since when my car is cold it seems to be alot faster. Changed the oil and looking under my car I realized there is oil leaking between the engine and transmission "Rear main seal" So im guessing this is the cause of my oil leak. I noticed it before but not like I did today. So now my new question for the day is the rear main seal,is it possibly repairable or do I just throw my hands up in the air to getting another motor or buying another/ trading for another ls. I guess as long as I can move it its fine for now. but having a top shape car is always my priority. Im also going to change the belt as soon as I can since it looks like its glazed. I would so be up for buying a sc kit later though after I get my car healthy again. Its pretty much like having a 90's corvette sedan but corvette doesnt have all the bells and whistles and you cant take 4 people along unless theyre midgets lol. Thanks, Mike

Posted by: Putter-GLHT

Check the rear of the valve covers before saying its a rear main seal. 3.9's like to leak on the lower rear corners and it runs down the transmission and smokes off the manifolds etc. Also if the rear main is leaking, make sure the pcv valve isn't frozen shut as sometimes thats all it takes to make an engine quit leaking... Cheers!

Posted by: beaups

I don't think our 3.9's have a pcv valve

Posted by: Quik LS

good advise - the leaks usually happen in the back corners that are hard to get to...

there is now PCV valves in the V8s - they vent straight into the intake.

Posted by: glanga

So I've tried to read this whole thread start to finish. Whoever said it should be mandatory reading before posting about S/C's is right.

Just a question.....Not sure if you touched on it yet. But any numbers?!!?!?
You haven't dyno'ed it yet? Do you know the exact RWHP before you added the S/C or just the BHP of the engine. Sorry if someone touched on this before. I tried to read it all but sometimes I'd skip over if I saw someone straying off topic.

Posted by: Quik LS

yeah - this thread has a little of everything in it now...

No numbers yet.

Our tuning effort is stalled waiting for SCT. They were suppose to release the LiveLink software to allow the LiveWire to DataLog (needed for tuning) last Tuesday..... They did - but did not release the LiveWire ROM upgrade. So until I can record a run and send it to Torrie, which he then modifies the tune, send it back to me, I uploaded and do another run.... we have to wait. It looks like it should only be a few more days....

Once we get to where the tune is as good as it can be remotely - then Torrie is flying up, and a bunch of folks from LLSOC are coming in - and we'll hit the dyno for final tunes. That way we aren't wasting expensive dyno time until the tune is very close.

While I was waiting on SCT - I have been working with Pulley Boys to get some pulleys and pulley systems build for this project.

The Thurderbird SuperCoupe uses a 3.1" - 3.2" pulley on the supercharger with a large pulley on the crank driving it with a 8-ribbed belt. Most of the performance guys start fooling with the drive ratio and getting to a 3:1 ratio (SC spins 3 times with each engine rpm).

in the first picture below - my current LS pulley on the right - the stock T-Bird pulley on the left. Our LS uses a 6-ribbed belt and revs higher than the SuperCoupes - so we need a different setup.

I have been using this formula:
boost = drive ratio X blower displacement X 25.58 / engine displacement - 14.7

so in my case:
drive ratio = crank pulley / sc pulley = 5.635/2.7 = 2.0938
boost = 2.0938 X 90ci X 25.58 / 240ci - 14.7
boost = 4820.34636 / 240 - 14.7
boost = 20.0847765 - 14.7
boost = 5.39 psi

I am running a 2.9" pulley right now making ~4psi (don't really know until we get to datalog again).

So I now have an interchangable system that allows easier swaps... and have a 2.9", 2.8" and 2.7" (which should make the 5.3psi) - in the second picture.

The cool thing is we can swap out the pulley easier and get more boost (if we think the engine can take it....)

Posted by: beaups

Why not just run a simple boost gauge just to be sure?

Posted by: Quik LS

I do. I have Autometer C2 air/fuel, fuel pressure and a boost/vac gauge in my a-pillar. eye-balling it while I'm driving at 100mph is not too accurate.

I actually wired the MAP senor into the LiveWire - to my boost levels also display on it - but more importantly I can now log the boost levels with all the other parameters when we do our tuning.

Posted by: 97stscaddy

Quik how much time have you invested into this project?

Posted by: Quik LS

I start Oct 15th 2005.

We went through several prototype peices, Geoff welding - me test fitting.

Then when we had those pieces right - I went through the installation. That was not only the install but building all the custom hoses, the belt, and relocating everything that was in the way.

I had a over-heating issue that turned out to be caused but a too small thermostat - but in the trouble shooting I installed the intercooler and piping.

Then came the tuning.

I picked a bad time to do all this - my company started aquiring Sept 18 2005 - and since has aquired 13 companies (including two last week...). So my work was really boiled down to a couple of weekends a month.

The car was hard down (apart) for about 6 months when I was neck deep in assembly, and traveling every week. It been daily driven now for five months. I focused on passing emissions first - which I did in March.

Now - what's left is finish the tuning and settle on a boost level that is max power but reliable. Once SCT gets the final pieces of the LiveWire datalogging done - could be in the next few days - we should be in the home stretch.

Posted by: rubydist

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quik LS

The Thurderbird SuperCoupe uses a 3.1" - 3.2" pulley on the supercharger with a large pulley on the crank driving it with a 8-ribbed belt. Most of the performance guys start fooling with the drive ratio and getting to a 3:1 ratio (SC spins 3 times with each engine rpm).

in the first picture below - my current LS pulley on the right - the stock T-Bird pulley on the left. Our LS uses a 6-ribbed belt and revs higher than the SuperCoupes - so we need a different setup.

I have been using this formula:
boost = drive ratio X blower displacement X 25.58 / engine displacement - 14.7

so in my case:
drive ratio = crank pulley / sc pulley = 5.635/2.7 = 2.0938
boost = 2.0938 X 90ci X 25.58 / 240ci - 14.7
boost = 4820.34636 / 240 - 14.7
boost = 20.0847765 - 14.7
boost = 5.39 psi

I am running a 2.9" pulley right now making ~4psi (don't really know until we get to datalog again).

Eaton also specs a 12,500 rpm rev limit for that M90, so if you are running the blower at ~3x engine speed, that would put the engine redline around 4200 rpm, which is probably a lot lower than you want...

Posted by: Quik LS

right - so on my new setup - 5.3psi of boost using the 2.7" SC drive pulley, my drive ratio is 2.0938

So with a 6,500rpm redline - I'll be pushing it.

But - I also upgraded the snout bearings, the coupler, and rotor bearings to the best I could buy - just in case I'm at the limit....

Posted by: crab daddy

I would not worry about it at all.

I run my M90 daily at about 15,500 rpm (2.8 pulley, 6.9 crank, 6300rpm shift)
and on the track a little over 18,000 rpm (2.6 pulley, 6.9 crank, 6300rpm shift)

I have done it for years and have not had a problem. Besides the amount of heat it creates because the m90 becomes much less efficient at those kind of rpm.

I haven't read this entire thread, but if you are not intercooling it, you may seriously want to consider it.

Posted by: Quik LS

cool - the guys over a SCCoA are way up there in rpms as well...

Yep I'm running a FMIC - 27 x 7.5 x 3.5 getting about 77% out of it....

Posted by: nickandersonLS01

Look at his pics, front mount nice n sexy, best looking LS.

Posted by: cbravnmls01

any news on rwhp or no?

Posted by: Quik LS

look at the post a couple up ^^

Posted by: daves2000ls

To make this an easier read I've begun to save it to my comp so I can take out any arguments, or any other nonpertinent talk. OK? But, I don't know what to do with it afterwards to make it easily accessible to everyone. Any suggestions?

Posted by: Quik LS

Once the project's wrapped up - we can make one new post, manual style, and repost.

thanks for the help.

Posted by: daves2000ls

ok, well, thats a good thing since my computer at work is old and couldn't even get through the first page before it locked up.

Posted by: nickandersonLS01

dave2000ls, download Firefox, goto options, de-select automatically load pictures. Then, download the adblock extension, and right click on the ads and adblock them, this will make a text-only browser which would be old-computer friendly(or in my case, remote desktop friendly)

Posted by: daves2000ls

thanks nick, but, supposedly the dept. is going to replace it sometime soon

Posted by: J3FF

Hey Quik...Great to see your progress. I wish I could have waited out on my LS a little longer, but I had to let it go.

Great Job, you've accomplished more than anyone on this forum, and I don't care who would object to this. 99% of the people, myself included, wouldn't dare put the time and effort into a project like this; on a car that was so restrictive.

I'm reconsidering buying another LS8 now

Posted by: 97stscaddy

You probably already answered this in the 20 something pages before this, but what kind of track times are you looking for when this is all said and done?

Posted by: wildstang607

quick, did you do anything to kill your compression to push more boost? could you do it with thicker head gaskets, like some cometics.

Posted by: b34nz

Hey quick, that video link was super slow. So I d/l'd the vid and upped it to you tube.

It's here: http://youtube.com/watch?v=ExHCwa2-jic
I also put this threads URL in the description so they can see the entire progress. Hope that's OK with you?

Posted by: allkesh

It sure is hard to be patient!!!!!!!

Posted by: allkesh

Getting Harder!

Posted by: Putter-GLHT

Its not hard. Spend 5 years on a project yourself and waiting 2-3 years for another's project isn't so bad.

Posted by: Quik LS

yep - sorry - as you saw in my other post - my company purchased three other companies in the past 45days... so I've been traveling non-stop. Haven't done much on the house, yard or car - it's running fine, just at the last tuning spot then see if we need to up the injectors and/or downsize the pulley.

SCT did release the firmware for the LiveLink to do pass-through datalogging - which is a big deal for me - since my wideband O2 sensor and MAP is wired into the LiveWire now...

I've got about another month of craziness before I can focus on the LS. I bought another car that is taking up some of my 'free time' until I get the boost/fuel/spark right on it. Heck - Rocket should be finished before that!

Maybe we can plan another 'LS Day' and make it a trip to the dyno - run all our cars?

Posted by: russellhyde

How many horses do you have, do you know?

Posted by: Lincolnls02black

sweet.. can't wait to see it in action.. post that on youtube also when ya done.

Posted by: 00HotRodLincoln

Hey Quik, So any luck so far on the progress of your ls? I was at the junk yard with my friend the other day and came across a 90 sc tbird. fourtunately I had 120 bucks burning a hole in my pocket. So I whiped out some tools and snagged the charger for 130. So now im in the process of going part for part and dollar to paycheck lol. But as many people or men in general say you only live once. I tried getting this sc on ebay but the seller never came through. But thats ebay for you sometimes. Anyways if you have any advice I could use on parts tuning etc. I would be willing to help you out some how for your time. Truthfully I dont know where to begin but at the same time I am determined to get er done in due time. I mean hell if im still paying 12 grand on a 8 grand blue book car I might as well make it worth every penny. I shelled out money for the front brakes about 2 weeks ago. now the drivers rear back pad failed so now I have to deal with schucks to try to get it replaced by warranty . But thats just cars sometimes. Better luck tommorow in my case. But I got a stall in the garage of my apartment today so I have some space to start a project. Ever since the day I found this site and your post I have been dreaming of creating a car similar to yours. I mean having a corvette is one thing, but a sedan similar to a corvette is just amazing. Thanks Quik and hope everything is going well for you, Mike

Posted by: 19stangman88

Which supercharger are ya'll using? I have one off of a grand prix but im not sure what model it is.

Posted by: 00HotRodLincoln

Mine is off a 90 tbird but quick ls is the real man here. Its the eaton m90 supercharger. Without him I wouldnt have this thing sitting on my livingroom floor.

Posted by: Sn8kbordin

Quik LS - any updates?

Posted by: FastNsmoothLS

There's a video on youtube. Looks/sounds nice.

Posted by: Sn8kbordin

Quote:

Originally Posted by FastNsmoothLS

There's a video on youtube. Looks/sounds nice.

Can you be more specific?
There are millions of videos on YouTube.

Posted by: NYC LS8

Of Quik's car. It's the same video that's been posted in this thread already. Just search YouTube for "Lincoln LS super charged".

Posted by: Sn8kbordin

Is it a track run with times or just car idling?

Posted by: NYC LS8

Idling.

Posted by: Sn8kbordin

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYC LS8

Idling.

And I thought I missed something. You got my hopes up for a second.

Posted by: FastNsmoothLS

Sorry, I haven't been following his progress and just happened to come across it earlier.

Posted by: Quik LS

Sorry guys - I've been off this board for a while. Good to see Rocket getting the turbo up and off the ground.

My car is fine - a few other board members have been in the pasenger seat a few times - the car is mean and loud...

I've taken to a few car shows and auto-crossed it a few times now... and won

- but - a tech protest has me offically 'reclassed' out of Street Prepared E - to Street Modified.... which means I am now going to compete with some very purposed built race cars.... ;(

So - I decided to work harder on the LS. Since it is my daily driver, I bought a second car to get me to and from work. I bought a 89 Lotus Esprit SE - spent the last month sorting that out (catching it up on the various maintenance items) - so I can drive that now daily and can have the LS apart for longer - and not taking the wife's car if the weekend project takes longer than a weekend.

I have several open projects - the LSD, trannie, the ported heads, .... finish the tuning on the supercharger. I've had it on the dyno a few times - we have pushed past where the N2O was getting the LS so things are looking good.

There is more in it - I need to get Torrie up to Austin and help finish it - let a 'pro' polish up my rough tuning. I have a larger set of injectors and smaller blower pulley ready....

My job has 'calmed down' a little - meaning I should have a quite December (no traveling except for family Christmas) so I should be moving the needle more with a second car and some time on my hands.

Any interest in another Austin area get together? maybe a dyno day?

Posted by: Quik LS

BTW: I believe we are buying a video camera for christmas - so I'll post up a video for those who can't come see and ride in it.

Posted by: 00_slow_5spd_ls

quick, everyone is dieing to know. WHAT DID IT PUT DOWN FOR NUMBERS?!?!?!?!?!

Posted by: NYC LS8

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quik LS

I've had it on the dyno a few times - we have pushed past where the N2O was getting the LS so things are looking good.

I know it's still in the rough stages of tuning, but spill some numbers!!

Posted by: ILLS

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quik LS

I have several open projects - the LSD, trannie, the ported heads, .... finish the tuning on the supercharger. I've had it on the dyno a few times - we have pushed past where the N2O was getting the LS so things are looking good.

It is good to hear that you pushed past my old nitrous numbers. What power did it make and at what boost pressure?

Posted by: 00_slow_5spd_ls

honestly, we have been waiting just as long as you for the numbers. its as simple as 3 clicks to the number pad

Posted by: Quik LS

The local car club had a 'dyno day' where one of the members was opening a new shop - so I took both cars 3 passes each:

Lincoln LS:
352.12/371.73
350.89/367.30
347.32/362.46

Lotus Esprit SE
275.21/277.45
278.13/279.41
281.65/284.02

I can't explain why the LS numbers fell off (maybe heat?) but the Lotus got better....

There is more in the LS - my A/F is stilll too fat - since there were 50 cars waiting we were not allowed to do any tuning...

The numbers on the Lotus are pretty good - for a 4banger (weighs 2487lbs)

Rocket - where are you heading for boost levels? (someone has to go too far so the rest of us know where to stop....).

I'm likely getting close to the spin limit of my M90.

Posted by: Rhep

Have you thought about upgrading to the MPIII or MPX?

I can't remember, are you using the 89-93 blower or the 94/95?

Posted by: Quik LS

Sure - there are lots of options - thats the good thing. I am on the SuperCoupe Club of America (SCCoA.com) and those t-birds have been doing lots with the setup.

The 'real' issue is how much can we cram down it before a problem....

I hope someone else can find the limit before I do

Posted by: Rhep

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quik LS

Sure - there are lots of options - thats the good thing. I am on the SuperCoupe Club of America (SCCoA.com) and those t-birds have been doing lots with the setup.

The 'real' issue is how much can we cram down it before a problem....

I hope someone else can find the limit before I do

Yup, I'm on SCCoA too, one of the few doing an M112 swap, heh.

You are putting down some nice numbers, keep up the good work.

Posted by: daves2000ls

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quik LS

Lincoln LS:
352.12/371.73
350.89/367.30
347.32/362.46

Lotus Esprit SE
275.21/277.45
278.13/279.41
281.65/284.02

Rocket - where are you heading for boost levels? (someone has to go too far so the rest of us know where to stop....).

F*ing A on the numbers, so glad to see 350 rwhp. Sounds like you'd rather it be him that pushes too far. Ha, hell, if you guys want to SC/TC mine, I'll let you blow the motor. Then us Sixers would know anyway.

Posted by: NYC LS8

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quik LS

The local car club had a 'dyno day' where one of the members was opening a new shop - so I took both cars 3 passes each:

Lincoln LS:
352.12/371.73
350.89/367.30
347.32/362.46

Lotus Esprit SE
275.21/277.45
278.13/279.41
281.65/284.02

I can't explain why the LS numbers fell off (maybe heat?) but the Lotus got better....

There is more in the LS - my A/F is stilll too fat - since there were 50 cars waiting we were not allowed to do any tuning...

The numbers on the Lotus are pretty good - for a 4banger (weighs 2487lbs)

Rocket - where are you heading for boost levels? (someone has to go too far so the rest of us know where to stop....).

I'm likely getting close to the spin limit of my M90.

Nice deal on the numbers, man!! That's pushing almost as much as my old '87 LSC (394/380)!! Awesome!!

Posted by: ILLS

350rwhp is pretty good. What were you running for boost? About 9lbs+ or so? I would assume it has to be at least around there due to the power and also your statement about maxxing the blower out; or were you running meth injection.

Posted by: ILLS

For the third time how much boost did you run on those pulls Lou? I am sure your future customers will want to know at what boost pressure those results were made; as well as any other mods in the combination (aka headwork, meth injection, alky injection, so on) besides the supercharger system itself.

BTW, in answer to your question posted for me above. I plan to run 4-5 psi on the street and 6-7 with the turbo at the track depending on how far I deem is reasonably safe on this motor.

Posted by: owlman

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quik LS

Any interest in another Austin area get together? maybe a dyno day?

I wouldn't mind taking another look a the beast and seeing how things have progressed

Posted by: Bodyshield

Quote:

Originally Posted by owlman

I wouldn't mind taking another look a the beast and seeing how things have progressed

im down as well, alot of LS owners from SA too

Posted by: Quik LS

Rocket - relax - you are not speaking on behalf of 'future customers' - sometimes you are funny. I am not ignoring you, I have not been on the board for a few days.... building some heat sheilds for the Lotus - after seeing the manifold and turbo glow red....

I normally run a tad over 5psi - and that is what I am recommending as a starting point for anyone following my work. Until we get more people pushing - we just do not know where the limit is. Maybe your work with the turbo will help define that (without breaking anything). Running 7psi with better cooling should work - I have run 7psi for a few months.

I have a set of custom 'quick change' pulleys - so I can change that boost level pretty easily. for the dyno run - I used my new smallest set - small enough I had to go to a shorter belt (the tensioner could not take up all the slack). I say your guess at my PSI was close.... it more fun when there is a little guessing right?

Posted by: Quik LS

Let's think about pulling a meet together maybe over the Christmas-New Years break?

We can do a car,food, beers meet - or - if someone has some work to do - we can do another garage day at my place....

Posted by: Sn8kbordin

So what power does LS make with 5 PSI of boost?

(I guess you were running 9 PSI to get 350 RWHP)

Posted by: ILLS

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quik LS

Rocket - relax - you are not speaking on behalf of 'future customers' - sometimes you are funny. I am not ignoring you, I have not been on the board for a few days.... building some heat sheilds for the Lotus - after seeing the manifold and turbo glow red....

I normally run a tad over 5psi - and that is what I am recommending as a starting point for anyone following my work. Until we get more people pushing - we just do not know where the limit is. Maybe your work with the turbo will help define that (without breaking anything). Running 7psi with better cooling should work - I have run 7psi for a few months.

I have a set of custom 'quick change' pulleys - so I can change that boost level pretty easily. for the dyno run - I used my new smallest set - small enough I had to go to a shorter belt (the tensioner could not take up all the slack). I say your guess at my PSI was close.... it more fun when there is a little guessing right?

Lou, it is understandable that you do not come on here often, but the question was asked repeatedly before your small absence for the Lotus project. There are allot of other people interested in your project and it is only proper to give them the facts on the combo. Running close to 9-10 psi is doable for a dyno run or two, but obviously not something a person will run all the time. That will be due to it being too much boost for an engine like this to be even remotely reliable as a street driven vehicle. I would like to see the results of what the car makes in a normal street driving boost level, versus "dyno day" boost levels as that is the real results people would look to attain with their cars. Lou, we do not do these people any justice if we run an inordinate amount of boost for a dyno session just to put up a number, but then run a much lower amount on the street. Usable results and data is what it is all about. Let me put it this way, there is no way in hell that I would run 9+ psi of boost on the LS 3.9 engine without having cash in hand for a rebuild in case the engine lets go.

Do not get me wrong, your car is something to be proud of for sure and it has posted some serious numbers when on pretty high boost (high boost for this engine). It has taken allot of effort to get you this far and you should no reason to feel anything but immensely proud of your project; but post some real world numbers at a boost level that people who may choose to follow in your footsteps will actually use safely.

Posted by: ILLS

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sn8kbordin

So what power does LS make with 5 PSI of boost?

(I guess you were running 9 PSI to get 350 RWHP)

My educated guess is that Lou's LS is probably putting down about 300rwhp on 5 psi of boost. That is assuming nothing else has changed minus the boost level. Lou any dyno numbers on your normal 5 psi of boost yet?

Let me be the first to say that 300rwhp is no slouch for a car like this. That kind of power will likely push an LS to mid 13's in the 1/4 mile assuming good traction.

Posted by: Quik LS

Rocket - you are just stating the obivious, and we agree.

Like I said in my post - I am also recommending people start at 5psi, and the pully setup we are starting on does that. Then once people are fully tuned and no other issue show up - then they can make educated decisions about increasing boost level, fueling, and re-tuning - understanding that they will be heading down a fairtly un-known path.

I drove around for six months or so at 5psi - did a varitey of driving types and all was good. I did get a fair about aof blow-back, which I added catch-cans to solve. Not sure there is a small crankcase pressurization problem or not - likely you will have to work through that as well.

I plan to bring Torrie up to do a real day of tuning - and it will include the 5psi setup. I am not expert enough to really polish the tune. I will post those numbers as well - and that's what people should expect form my setup.

300rwhp - just be close to 367~ish crank hp - which is close to where I was on N2O - and I ran high 13's. I really spun through the first 80'.

Once you get some numbers up to compare with - what I am assuming is that I'll lose a few hp to drive the roots (compared to the turbo) but may have a faster flatter torque curve? What's your thoughts?

Posted by: ILLS

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quik LS

I plan to bring Torrie up to do a real day of tuning - and it will include the 5psi setup. I am not expert enough to really polish the tune. I will post those numbers as well - and that's what people should expect form my setup.

300rwhp - just be close to 367~ish crank hp - which is close to where I was on N2O - and I ran high 13's. I really spun through the first 80'.

Once you get some numbers up to compare with - what I am assuming is that I'll lose a few hp to drive the roots (compared to the turbo) but may have a faster flatter torque curve? What's your thoughts?

I remember that you said you have the PRP for your car. I suggest just really diving into it head first. Any other approach will take a real long time to allow a person enough experience to become a good tuner. Before I became a Ford custom tuner I used to rely upon other people to tune my vehicles. Frankly it was hit or miss with the tuning itself and with the customer service, even with the big name tuners. Once I made the jump to tuning my own vehicles I was much happier. You probably could have cut months off your project if you didn't have to rely upon someone so far away to tune your car. You obviously care about your car allot more than anyone else does. That is a big determining factor in how good your tune turns out because you will take the time to get it perfect while not taking it too far. With a very custom project like yours it becomes very beneficial. With other run of the mill stuff like supercharged or turbocharged Mustang's it has been done so much that there are almost full value files for those things that require very little real tuning from scratch. However, this is all determined by how much time can be dedicated to the learning process. Some people have the time while others may not.

I remember you posting about your nitrous run. Your 60' was terrible due to that lack of traction you mention. I would bet mid 13's with good traction on a combo similar to yours running 5 psi of boost and with good traction.

There is usually a good deal of difference between the horsepower that a turbo makes versus a supercharger; which you already know. That difference increases when talking about a roots blower (or twin screw) which has allot more mass to rotate then a centrifugal s/c. It also increases because roots and twin screw blowers run insanely high IAT's compared to centrifugal superchargers or turbochargers which means less dense an aircharge and less spark timing the engine will take. Once spooled turbo's are torquemonsters so I would be surprised if a roots combo made more average or peak torque on similar boost. You are right that your torque curve should come on a little bit before mine. However, with a properly sized turbo spool time will be minimal. Again, nothing personal meant in this last comparison. No "haha mine's bigger than yours" statements being made here. Just stating things on a technical basis only since you asked. What I want people to understand is that I am not just saying these things because I did a turbo on my car, I opted to do the turbo on my car because of these things.

Posted by: Quik LS

No worries - I asked for you input and I appreciate you keeping it constructive. It will be neat to see the numbers of the two setups at the same PSI. Even if those things are close (which they should be..) the suttle things like launch, tip-in/tip-out, lag, ...etc are all unique and finer points to the setups.

I have owned several turbo cars, the LS is my first supercharged one. I am still dated a bit in my applications - similar to the OEs, where I turbo the small motors, supercharge the large. We are seeing quite a swing with turbos showing up on the larger displacements and having not only the power but the reliability and responsiveness.

All good stuff, glad to see the LS evolving - finally.

Posted by: PatrickSimmons

This is truely good stuff to see a real comparison of both the turbo and sc on the same model vehicle and get real world numbers.

Posted by: ILLS

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quik LS

No worries - I asked for you input and I appreciate you keeping it constructive. It will be neat to see the numbers of the two setups at the same PSI. Even if those things are close (which they should be..)

Lou, I am sorry but the results will not be as close as you seem to think. Your setup is making roughly 13.8-14.5rwhp per pound of boost assuming only 9 psi of boost and a baseline of around 220-225rwhp. I have seen MAAAAANY non-IC'ed remote turbo setups make anywhere between 18-22rwhp per pound of boost. Most IC'ed remote turbo setups are pushing 22-24rwhp per pound of boost. Though I do have a fairly large FMIC I still estimated my gains of around 20rwhp per pound of boost which is likely to be on the low side. Heck, even on a very inefficient V6 Mustang with 2 valve heads with no FMIC the gains were 16.83rwhp per pound of boost with a remote turbo. Now factor in a much more boost friendly 4 valve head and a FMIC. I really am not trying to be a jerk, but the math does not lie.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quik LS

I have owned several turbo cars, the LS is my first supercharged one. I am still dated a bit in my applications - similar to the OEs, where I turbo the small motors, supercharge the large. We are seeing quite a swing with turbos showing up on the larger displacements and having not only the power but the reliability and responsiveness.

You are right that turbo's have really caught on in the last few years with the domestic crowd. You go back even 5-7 years ago and no one ran them but on imports. Now it is the craze. Even as little as 3 years ago Kenne Bell Cobra's pushing 600-650rwhp were king of the Ford community. Now you aren't sh*t unless you are running a TT pushing 850-950rwhp on a daily driven Terminator. Crazy but fun times we live in. Speaking of turbocharged cars....lets see pictures of that Esprit.

Posted by: Quik LS

Quote:

Originally Posted by PatrickSimmons

This is truely good stuff to see a real comparison of both the turbo and sc on the same model vehicle and get real world numbers.

there are some differences - my pre-03 stock is 252hp, Rocket's 05 is 280hp stock and has some of the newer VVT, Throttle-by-wire, better exhaust, ....etc

Not sure how much of that GAP is thrown out by these types of modifications and the tuning. Rocket can likely tell you more about the differences - I have not tuned on any VVT LS.

Posted by: Quik LS

Quote:

Originally Posted by ILLS

assuming only 9 psi of boost and a baseline of around 220-225rwhp.

that's assuming 9psi

Quote:

Originally Posted by ILLS

Even as little as 3 years ago Kenne Bell Cobra's pushing 600-650rwhp were king of the Ford community. Now you aren't sh*t unless you are running a TT pushing 850-950rwhp on a daily driven Terminator. Crazy but fun times we live in. Speaking of turbocharged cars....lets see pictures of that Esprit.

As a point-of-reference - at the dyno day I was at - 31 cars. 7 put down over 1000hp.

All drove there and had plates, inspection stickers.

Posted by: ILLS

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quik LS

that's assuming 9psi

Well I took an educated stab at it and you confirmed it. If you happen to be running more than 9 psi of boost then your hp gained per pound of boost is even lower than my figures show. I was giving you the benefit of the doubt in assuming it was only 9 psi. I also asked if you were running meth, water, or alky injection and you said nothing to that affect...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quik LS

As a point-of-reference - at the dyno day I was at - 31 cars. 7 put down over 1000hp.

All drove there and had plates, inspection stickers.

Not bad. Technology is a great thing.

Posted by: 1HOTSVT

is this kit for sale or anything?

Posted by: gt95coupe