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Supercharged Ls V8

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Posted by: Quik LS

Quote:

Originally Posted by rocket5979

You know whats the funny thing, I didn't notice any air assist crap when taking a look at my injectors on the 05. It must have been something they changed when going to the 03's.

correct the 03+ use a 3W43-9F593-AB injector - no air assist.

Posted by: rocket5979

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quik LS

correct the 03+ use a 3W43-9F593-AB injector - no air assist.

Thats good. Less crap to deal with.

Posted by: Quik LS

Ok - here's what I have been able to find on the stock injectors:

Ford XW43-9F593-CA
Ford XW4Z 9F593 CA
Motorcraft CM4934
Standard FJ297
Airtex 4G1234
Delphi FJ10533

12 ohm coil with the following flow rates:

Dynamic (2.5ms @ 100Hz): 25.32 g/min 32.88 cc/sec
Static (10ms @ 100Hz): 173.14 g/min 224.85 cc/min

if I am doing my math right -- 224.85 cc/min/10.5 = 21.45 lb hr.

Posted by: nashmage

I am new here and just recently got my ls this week and i have always wanted my car to be unique from everyone else in my area, so putting a sc on it is amazingly unique lol i have an amazing amount of respect for you being able to do all that and i think that you car looks amazing too. Do you think once you have finished everything and the car is completely done that you/that other person you mentioned (sorry forgot the name) will be making a kit that includes all parts needed to do this job so i can just buy it and pay someone around my area to do it to my car? Thanks in advance and good luck on getting everything else to work.

Posted by: Quik LS

thanx

Right - the plan is to make these a kit.

the fabrication pieces (manifold, cooling piping, belt brackets, ...)
the cooling hoses
the vacuum lines
new belt
the various mounting brackets
new injectors (if needed)
performance tune (SCT XCal2 if needed)
the various SC (M90, inlet/outlet plenums) pieces (if needed)
the throttle body / TPS / IAC valve plate (if needed)

first I have to get one working....

Posted by: GrayGhost1

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quik LS

first I have to get one working....

Oh yeah!!

Posted by: 2001LS8Sport

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quik LS

Ok - here's what I have been able to find on the stock injectors:

Ford XW43-9F593-CA
Ford XW4Z 9F593 CA
Motorcraft CM4934
Standard FJ297
Airtex 4G1234
Delphi FJ10533

12 ohm coil with the following flow rates:

Dynamic (2.5ms @ 100Hz): 25.32 g/min 32.88 cc/sec
Static (10ms @ 100Hz): 173.14 g/min 224.85 cc/min

if I am doing my math right -- 224.85 cc/min/10.5 = 21.45 lb hr.

Quik...what's the application for those? I don't know of a Ford 21 lb injector. But I'm sure there are so many applications out there that they do in fact exist. There are also a lot of 24 lb options. I'm not sure what the LS currently has, but I would have guessed 19 lbs. 21 is not much of an increase. As a matter of fact, when I think about it, for the 6 lbs of boost you are going to try, you may want to try the stock injectors and datalog the a/f ratio along with the injector dwell while on the dyno and see where you're at. But I agree...you are pushing the envelope of the stock injection system.

Posted by: Quik LS

those are the actual stock 00-02 LS, 02 T-bird V8 injectors.

I am going to start with a set of 05 Mustang GT 24lbs injectors - should have them be the weekend....

Posted by: KD00LS

To your knowledge, what would be easier to install the setup on. A 00-02 or 03+?

Posted by: Quik LS

very little difference. The belt will be shorter on the 03+ since there is no fan pump. I bet the injectors will need to be upgraded on either model year.

otherwise - all the same.

Posted by: rocket5979

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quik LS

very little difference. The belt will be shorter on the 03+ since there is no fan pump. I bet the injectors will need to be upgraded on either model year.

otherwise - all the same.

Yeah definately bigger injectors, even with 6 psi. Some 32's would be about perfect depending on how much you would want to grow after that. That is if you have the money coming out your butt that it would take to pay a company like Oliver to make custom connecting rods, not to mention having to replace the pistons themselves. hehe. With a good dynotune stock Cobra 39's would be a good option too like 2001LS8 said.

I got 42's in my truck making close to 400 to the wheels and with the tune and new MAS it idles and drives like stock.

Posted by: 2001LS8Sport

Quote:

Originally Posted by rocket5979

Rocket...are those Cobra injectors you're using? The reason I ask is a lot of guys claim those to be 42 lbs instead of 39 lbs.

Posted by: fordtechguru

just checked back in on the progress, still excited to see the results qwik... definitly glad to see others using a lm-1/lc-1 meter to tune also... what a great product... now i'm tired and hungry but it would seem to me that an adjustable fmu would provide plenty of fuel enrichment on 6psi.... works great on the procharger stuff i do... the sct x-cal can pull global spark out if needed right?... course' i could be smokin' glue....check in later to see what you come up with....gotta finish the turbocharger setup on my ranger 4.0l....

Posted by: rocket5979

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2001LS8Sport

Rocket...are those Cobra injectors you're using? The reason I ask is a lot of guys claim those to be 42 lbs instead of 39 lbs.

Nope, the ones I am running are 42's. Green tops and different harness clips. I had originally had them for a supercharged 5.0 project a few years ago.

Posted by: Putter-GLHT

Are you using 4valve heads on your explorer? ^

Posted by: rocket5979

Quote:

Originally Posted by Putter-GLHT

Are you using 4valve heads on your explorer? ^

Nope, still got the 2 v heads on there. Just running a prototyped Kenne Bell 2.2 kit on it.

Posted by: Quik LS

This weekends update....

I was actually in town for the entire weekend.

I pulled the SC off the car, removed the manifold and swapped the injectors.

It sure is nice to be able to pull the manifold off without draining the rad!

The pics below show the car wide open - yet again.

The stock 'air-assist' injectors beside the new 2005 Mustang GT injectors.

and the assembled manfold.

I'll put it all together with week and hopefully it ill run much better now that we eliminated the vacuum leak.

Posted by: HyeLifeLS

Lookin' good

Posted by: renxwar

Looks good so far. Keep me updated, if this is a kit that becomes available I will DEFIENTLY have to pick one up.

Posted by: PM80

So are we going to have to wait for the heads and cam to be installed or are you going to finish thi first? Either way i will be happy. I just want the blower.

Posted by: Quik LS

It's alive!!!!

http://media.putfile.com/Its-alive54

Posted by: rocket5979

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quik LS

It's alive!!!!

http://media.putfile.com/Its-alive54

Bout damn time!

Ummmmm why dont I hear no revs??? I want to hear the roots charger whine!

Posted by: HyeLifeLS

Nice work Quik, sounds pretty smooth, how it runs??

Posted by: rocket5979

Quote:

Originally Posted by HyeLifeLS

Nice work Quik, sounds pretty smooth, how it runs??

He probably hasnt gotten it on the dyno to really tune it yet. I am willing to bet he is playing it safe till then. I know I did. I'm too cheap to fork out money to fix what would have been a perfectly good stock shortblock.

Posted by: HyeLifeLS

That's what I thought too.

Posted by: J3FF

Omg man, that thing is sweet! Great work bro!

Posted by: hess38511

very sweet if you ever want to sell the car the line forms behind me

Posted by: GrayGhost1

The most pivotal day in the history of the Lincoln LS. It's running with a supercharger attached!! What's the next step now?

Posted by: Quik LS

true - this is the first 10mins of it's running since being put back together for weeks....

Posted by: Quik LS

next steps - run it for 30mins -
- make sure I do not have any leaks - fuel, oil, coolant
- make sure the changes to the cooling system are working....

then give it some revs....

add my data logging to it and start re-tuning.....

Posted by: rocket5979

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrayGhost1

The most pivotal day in the history of the Lincoln LS. It's running with a supercharger attached!! What's the next step now?

I suggest CP pistons, custom Oliver billet I-beams, much smaller pulley and a dynotune! hehehehehehe.

Posted by: rocket5979

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quik LS

next steps - run it for 30mins -
- make sure I do not have any leaks - fuel, oil, coolant
- make sure the changes to the cooling system are working....

then give it some revs....

add my data logging to it and start re-tuning.....

Did you get your PRP yet? I got mine a few weeks ago and just been tinkering with it ever since.

Already made a few tunes for different things from 4th gear locked for dynopulls to valet tunes. You will like it a lot. It is nice to tune things yourself versus waiting for someone else to do it and then spending an arm and a leg to do so.

Posted by: StinkinLinkinLS01

Now that the project is almost complete...I'm assuming you must be making plans for the kit's IPO.lol. Are there any deadlines that you've set or any rough dates as to which you'd like to have the kit available to the public? A year ago I read a thread stating the kit may start at $3500-$4000...is that still true? I'd like to have mine sometime this summer (I live in Minnesota!) if it becomes available...hopefully june/july...hell...even august will do...

Posted by: MsM8tress

Ummm GETTING OFF the subject (s'cuse me) But...."wait for the heads and the bumpy stick........either way....I just want the blower......"

heheh I don't want to hear another word about me and my....ummm unintended comments! ....hehehe,

Smooches HOTTIES!!!! (nice to see ya Hy, Quickie, Stinkin, y'all R lookin HOTT!!!)

MsM8

Posted by: PM80

Music to my ears.

Posted by: daves2000ls

Badass, can't wait to see some numbers, i should skip out on school and go to Austin with my girl(shes on spring break) and take a peek

Posted by: daves2000ls

thats the most beautiful video i have ever seen on the internet

Posted by: rocket5979

Quote:

Originally Posted by daves2000ls

thats the most beautiful video i have ever seen on the internet

What about lesbian porn? Thats pretty beautiful to me

Posted by: mjeppsen

Quote:

Originally Posted by daves2000ls

thats the most beautiful video i have ever seen on the internet

Yes, very sexy. LS pr0n.
Nice work quik.

-MJ

Posted by: daves2000ls

while lesbian porn rules, i would say that it is not beautiful, its hot, the supercharged 3.9L, now thats beautiful

i was waiting for someone to bring up porn, i realized after i said that

Posted by: rocket5979

Quote:

Originally Posted by daves2000ls

while lesbian porn rules, i would say that it is not beautiful, its hot, the supercharged 3.9L, now thats beautiful

i was waiting for someone to bring up porn, i realized after i said that

You know us all too well.

Posted by: StinkinLinkinLS01

any updates?

Posted by: Quik LS

I'm back in town this week - so we will be working on the car alot. So far no leaks, so I changed oil and gave it a wash.

I'll be taking it on short trips this week - seeing if everythin is ok.

I plan on a dyno day and tune next Wednesday.

Posted by: chr0me

niiice im starting a count down on those days...

Posted by: eL eS

sweet.... I have not be able to stop thinking about this project. I cant wait to see the numbers.

Posted by: monnieh

did you dyno it today?

Posted by: Quik LS

it's next wednesday.

Posted by: lsondubz

Let me know when I can buy the kit...

Posted by: PM80

Question for you quick? Since you have the air indution in the hood when you sell the kit are you going to offer a tune since I don't think anyone else out there has this hood mod? Or are we going to need to find someone to do the tune for us?

Posted by: Quik LS

That is a question we are hoping to answer once we get mine tuned.

The plan is the Torrie is coming to Austin himself to do the tuning - so we'll see how comfortable we can get with packaging...

My hope is that the kit would include a tune (and XCal2 if needed) - then Torrie can make small adjustment per customer if needed.

Posted by: lloydrage

this is going to be soo sweet. Make sure to keep us posted. Good luck with the tests quik

Posted by: PM80

One more day and we should see some numbers. YEAHHHHHHH

Posted by: bigpappy33

the suspense is killing me.

Posted by: MsM8tress

QUICK IS
HOT!

Smooches!
MsM8

Posted by: Quik LS

Well - I hate to be a tease..........

We worked all night on the car - yes the neighbors will be a bit grouchy this morning since they didn't get any sleep.....

I can't hit the dyno today - we have an overheating issue I have to fix. the car drives fine, all day long until I add some boost.

So it one of two things:
- the re-plumping of the aux cooling pump is siphoning off too much cold coolant before it reaches the engine (should be easy enough to test)
- I'm making too much boost. we were shooting for 4-5psi, but it looks like I coming in 7-8psi. I need to get a good mechanical gauge to make sure. I'm fine with 7psi, not fine with 8.

I have a front mount intercooler coming tomorrow - so tonight I'll work on the cooling issue and make sure the problem is boost related (which should go away with the intercooler) - then plan on hitting the dyno next week.....

I was going to end up with an intercooler anyways - so this just accelerates that step.

...sorry I know everyone is anxious but if we are going to spend a half day on the dyno $$$$ - I want to make sure we get the most out of the money spent.

Posted by: lloydrage

thanks for the update Quik. Hopefully you can figure out for sure what it is tonight. good luck

Posted by: GrayGhost1

Lou,

Good progress. As for the cooling issue, didn't the OLOA boys put a bigger radiator in their car? Last thing I remember from them was that the stock LS cooling system was ok so adding items like this would cause you to be "under" cooled...if that's a word. Have you looked into an aftermarket radiator or bigger intercooler?

Posted by: Quik LS

yep - that was always the weak point........

I was hoping to aviod that by only running 4-5psi - but since it looks like I'm higher than that - gotta deal with it now....

I'm hoping by adding the IC it will bring me back down close to even.....

If every psi increases the temp of the intake charge by 15 - 18 degrees:
- then 4psi = + 72 degrees over outside
- then 7psi = + 126 degrees over outside

if the IC can get a 77% efficiency in cooling (which they claim) - 126 degrees * .77 = drop by 97 degrees.

So I'll be left with only a 19 degree increase at 7psi....

That's providing that the cooling issue is simply caused by boost

Posted by: rocket5979

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quik LS

yep - that was always the weak point........

I was hoping to aviod that by only running 4-5psi - but since it looks like I'm higher than that - gotta deal with it now....

Yeah, that IC will help you cool things QUITE considerably! I bet you are getting REALLY heatsoaked while running not only the engine hot rad fluid through that one radiator, but also the heatons cooling fluid too. Heck, even with an water/air IC you will occasionally experience heatsoak during certain times. That is just the name of the game with our PD blowers. Even the twin screws get hot as heck with a really efficient IC.

Posted by: 2001LS8Sport

Boy...I really hated to hear this Quik. Heat on a s/c car is the kiss of death. It can put a stop to the whole project. Even on our Cobras that were designed with the s/c, there are heating concerns. There are mods to increase flow through the cylinder heads, bigger radiators, better intercoolers, larger intercooler tanks, etc. They all help...but the single biggest problem you have is the (h)eaton. Those damn things just create too much heat. That is why everyone who gets serious about their car swaps to a Whipple or Kenne Bell. And quite honestly, the new Whipple that's out is absolutely the most amazing blower on the market. It's flying off the shelves to the tune of about 5 to 1 to the KB with the SVT boys. They are insane with their efficiency...and low charge temps.

I wish you the best with this because it can kill your whole project if you can't work it out. Limiting boost with the Eaton is without a doubt your first priority...and you may need a larger pulley for that. The intercooler is your next best step since your math is very good. It is amazing how well that will help. Ensuring that all intake air is taken outside the hood is another priority. If you're sucking in heated air to begin with, you're sunk.

I sure hope you find something minor here!

Posted by: rocket5979

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2001LS8Sport

Boy...I really hated to hear this Quik. Heat on a s/c car is the kiss of death. It can put a stop to the whole project. Even on our Cobras that were designed with the s/c, there are heating concerns. There are mods to increase flow through the cylinder heads, bigger radiators, better intercoolers, larger intercooler tanks, etc. They all help...but the single biggest problem you have is the (h)eaton. Those damn things just create too much heat. That is why everyone who gets serious about their car swaps to a Whipple or Kenne Bell. And quite honestly, the new Whipple that's out is absolutely the most amazing blower on the market. It's flying off the shelves to the tune of about 5 to 1 to the KB with the SVT boys. They are insane with their efficiency...and low charge temps.

I wish you the best with this because it can kill your whole project if you can't work it out. Limiting boost with the Eaton is without a doubt your first priority...and you may need a larger pulley for that. The intercooler is your next best step since your math is very good. It is amazing how well that will help. Ensuring that all intake air is taken outside the hood is another priority. If you're sucking in heated air to begin with, you're sunk.

I sure hope you find something minor here!

Yep. Being that he is running pretty low boost even on the heaton the IC should do the trick. You figure by putting all that heat through one venue (regular rad) that it is kind of a catalyzing affect, causing exponential heatsoak because the cooling system cannot keep up.

Once the new water/air IC goes in his IAT's will drop a lot. It might even be worthwhile to attach a few small aux elec fans to the IC too. Help push some more air through to cool down while idling in between runs. Lessens the chance of back to back runs causing heatsoak. That will depend on the room you have available of course. I haven't measured the front bumper area so I have zero idea of what room Quik is playing with.

Posted by: 2001LS8Sport

Quote:

Originally Posted by rocket5979

Once the new water/air IC goes in his IAT's will drop a lot. It might even be worthwhile to attach a few small aux elec fans to the IC too. Help push some more air through to cool down while idling in between runs.

Here's a place to start with that. It's a shop here in the Valley that is absolutely amazing with their innovation and tuning. The website is crude...but thank God their work and parts aren't. I have no idea if this would fit...but it's at least something to look at.

http://www.svcmotorsports.com/script...asp?ItemID=329

Posted by: Quik LS

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2001LS8Sport

Ensuring that all intake air is taken outside the hood is another priority. If you're sucking in heated air to begin with, you're sunk.

the hole in my hood should help that...

Posted by: Quik LS

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2001LS8Sport

I've used the Snow Performance stuff in the past -
http://www.snowperformance.net/

I could even go with a simple IC cooler -> http://www.nitrousexpress.com/Catalo...ntercooler.pdf

I really think a front mount with the 'right' amount of boost should fix me.... we'll know more this weekend....

Posted by: rocket5979

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quik LS

I really think a front mount with the 'right' amount of boost should fix me.... we'll know more this weekend....

I agree. It will help your heat situation quite a bit! You figure that your system is what is stock in a lot of other cars (6-7 psi on a roots). All they do is have electric fans and a separate IC and they are fine, which means that yours should be kosher as well.

Posted by: allkesh

Have you thought about Alcohol Injection?
Are you running stock cams?

Posted by: Quik LS

Quote:

Originally Posted by allkesh

Have you thought about Alcohol Injection?
Are you running stock cams?

Yes - I would rather stay away from chemically cooling the charge if I can. The link I posted about Snow Performance is a kit that I have used before.

Yes - stock for now - I have a set of re-tuned cams that I'll try after I get the SC up and running. If this is going to be a kit we have to stay with stock as much as feasible.

Posted by: MsM8tress

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quik LS

Well - I hate to be a tease........

OH PLEASE QUICK!!!!! You have been since the day I joined this site..

Your skills, always improving..your talents on making the best, hottest (err, well coolest!) and fastest running set of wheels on the road..

Torture....tantalizing torture...it's brought me to beggin on my knees....please, ohhhh please....the next time you are bent over that huge hot engine of yours....snap a pic for the HOTTIES thread...(or just for me....).

Forgive my boldness Quick...but your lust, desire to have the ultimate running machine....and the way you inspire others...getting the greatest hottest minds working to come up with the ultimate solution...

it's just damn HOT!!!!

MsM8

Posted by: Quik LS

Quote:

Originally Posted by MsM8tress

it's just damn HOT!!!!

MsM8

well - hopefully not after the intercooler....

Posted by: MsM8tress

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quik LS

well - hopefully not after the intercooler....

Ok Ok.....HOT in the COOOOLEST WAY HOTTIE!!!!!

MsM8

Posted by: 2001LS8Sport

Quote:

Originally Posted by allkesh

Have you thought about Alcohol Injection?
Are you running stock cams?

The problem with alchohol injection is...well...the alchohol! It is so corrosive that it can harm the rotors on the blower....especially if the tips are treated. You can use ethanol instead of methanol and that will help...but not cure the problem. Believe me...I would have it otherwise on my Cobra and Snow performance is the way I would go....because it can be awesome!!

Damn Quik....I think you just got propositioned!!! I had this brief glimpse in my mind of you and her and the fender of your car....

Posted by: GrayGhost1

Quote:

Originally Posted by MsM8tress

Ok Ok.....HOT in the COOOOLEST WAY HOTTIE!!!!!

MsM8

Damn MsM8tress....you just need to take a trip down to Austin, TX and thank Lou personally! I'm sure his wife won't mind! LOL!

Posted by: eL eS

wow Quik... Wish I would have kept my LS now

Posted by: allkesh

OH YEE OF LITTLE FAITH.... bad move!!!!!!!!

SO "THE KIT" WILL REQUIRE AN AFTERMARKET EXHAUST SINCE THE STOCK EXHAUST WILL HAVE HIGHER BOOST PRESSURE.

Posted by: Quik LS

Quote:

Originally Posted by allkesh

OH YEE OF LITTLE FAITH.... bad move!!!!!!!!

SO "THE KIT" WILL REQUIRE AN AFTERMARKET EXHAUST SINCE THE STOCK EXHAUST WILL HAVE HIGHER BOOST PRESSURE.

Stock exhaust will work fine, where are talking an SC here.

Posted by: PGA2B

Quik,
I put two bottles of Redline Water Wetter per two gallons of fluid in my main radiator (I know that is more than they recommend) and it helped overall engine temp alot and I filled my intercooler radiator with only Water Wetter and 1 cup of coolant (for seal lubrication for the pump). It was a 4 gallon radiator from a VW Sirocco. The intercooler dropped my temps by 154 degrees allowing me to run a 2.6" pulley with 15 lbs of boost, no KR, and 24 degrees of timing on the street with proper tuning. Here is a pic of what I was using

Now I know mine was an air to water and a different setup but dropping temps is the end result we both needed. I suggest you try some Water Wetter!!

Posted by: allkesh

Bigger exhaust leaves less exhaust in the combustion chamber and more room for intake air, hence the lower boost pressure. I understand you want a CERTAIN amount of back pressure for a whole bunch of reasons. Still an engine is nothing more than an air pump. You are just making it a butting kicking one.

“I went to a local shop and made a custom cat-back - 2.5" piping with few bends, magnaflow x-pipe, flowmaster 40s, magnaflow quad tips....

reports from the prototypes it that 3" piping lost too much back pressure.”

SC is a positive displacement pump.... ideally you want the boost to get smaller for a give CFM. This will result in an exponential (to the 3RD!!!) increase in power to the wheels because of the pump laws.

But if you are saying that what you have works… then… Guess I gon-do that!

Posted by: Quik LS

right - I understand - again we are aiming for 4-5psi - and the car will realistically be a full boost a small percent of the time.

Ideally once I get mine working, the next few will be on a combination of stock to modded LSes - and with the proper tuning we'll know what the range output will be. I do want a totally stock LS to be able to handle it.

Posted by: MsM8tress

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrayGhost1

Damn MsM8tress....you just need to take a trip down to Austin, TX and thank Lou personally! I'm sure his wife won't mind! LOL!

That would be fantastic. What a lucky lady, I'd give my eye teeth to be able to sit and listen to Quick talk about engines and his ideas on how to get more outta what cha got or hand friggin wrenches and car parts to.....damn....some ladies have all the luck!

SMOOCHES!!
MsM8

Posted by: allkesh

Gotcha.

Couldn't imagine what a full bore SC LS would be like. SOmething crazy like 500hp or something.

Posted by: Quik LS

Quote:

Originally Posted by allkesh

Gotcha.

Couldn't imagine what a full bore SC LS would be like. SOmething crazy like 500hp or something.

well - not 500hp on stock internals.....

Posted by: allkesh

I would LOVE to see 400hp with stock internals and bolt ons!

What is the weak link for the stock internals?
Pistons, rods and bolts? I know the high compression ratio isn't forced induction friendly.

Is there any overlap on the stock cams? Superchargers are more intolerant than turbo when it comes to overlap.

Posted by: KD00LS

What about that 40 Below product that the MK8 guys use?
http://www.classicchevy.com/product....1&dept_id=1249

Posted by: Quik LS

Quote:

Originally Posted by allkesh

I would LOVE to see 400hp with stock internals and bolt ons!

What is the weak link for the stock internals?
Pistons, rods and bolts? I know the high compression ratio isn't forced induction friendly.

Is there any overlap on the stock cams? Superchargers are more intolerant than turbo when it comes to overlap.

We don't really know that much about the engine limits - other than I ran 100shot of NOS for a about a year - nothing broke.

I believe the weak links will be:
- the 8" rear end
- the 5R55N trannie

Posted by: allkesh

Are you going to stick with the open diff? One wheel peels suck and have the AdvanceTrac kickiing in everytime you floor it would get old?

What happened when you floored it with NOS?

Posted by: Quik LS

for now - we have not been able to find a suitable replacement - though some of the team over at LLSOC were trying to convert to a Torsen - not sure where that project stands.

on NOS - I spun through 80" - but that could have been what kept my rear end and trannie in one piece....

Posted by: allkesh

Ever considered putting in a manual from a jag or something?

Posted by: Quik LS

looked at many, many times - challenges on both the phsyical match and on the electronics. Probably would have better luck working with the trannie from the new Mustang.

Posted by: daves2000ls

have you had a chance to dyno it yet?

Posted by: rocket5979

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quik LS

looked at many, many times - challenges on both the phsyical match and on the electronics. Probably would have better luck working with the trannie from the new Mustang.

The tranny from the Mustang is pretty much identical to the 5R55N tranny. Same goes for the W as well that is in the new gen Explorers. Level 10 offers a build for the 5R55N, S trannies that costs $3,300 and will hold 700rwhp. They also offer that same build for the 5R55W trannies that will hold 700rwhp but it only costs $2,800 for the build. Just a little info being that I have been tracking tranny builders for this series of trannies for about 2.5 years now. Art Carr is also currently R&D'ing the build for a 5R55S tranny for a fellow I know on another board so they may be coming out with an offering for these in less than 6 months or so.

BTW, those price quotes are without the new TC that would be required to handle all that torque and launch the vehicle at whatever rpm you wanted to.

Posted by: Quik LS

Quote:

Originally Posted by daves2000ls

have you had a chance to dyno it yet?

check post #255 http://www.lincolnvscadillac.com/sho...&postcount=255

Posted by: MsM8tress

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2001LS8Sport

....Damn Quik....I think you just got propositioned!!! I had this brief glimpse in my mind of you and her and the fender of your car....

LS8..should I wonder why your thinkin bout me and Quick on a fender....or just get your credit card number.....hehehe

SMOOCH!

MsM8

Posted by: Quik LS

Well - here are some pics of the intercooler install in progress....

the bumper is tougher than it looks.

Posted by: rocket5979

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quik LS

Well - here are some pics of the intercooler install in progress....

the bumper is tougher than it looks.

Hell Quik I didnt realize that you had to go with an air/air IC, I just assumed that since you were running a roots, that it would be a water/air IC. Hmm. Not too shabby.

Posted by: 2001LS8Sport

Quote:

Originally Posted by MsM8tress

LS8..should I wonder why your thinkin bout me and Quick on a fender....or just get your credit card number.....hehehe

SMOOCH!

MsM8

LOL...I have to admit...I deserved that one!!!

Posted by: Wishmissle

cant wait to see what amt of pressure the manifold takes......i have been debating about doing a twin turbo setup.

Posted by: Quik LS

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wishmissle

cant wait to see what amt of pressure the manifold takes......i have been debating about doing a twin turbo setup.

what are you going to do for internals? Twin turbos seem like overkill for a engine that can only handle ~ 400hp without internals. It would be cool to see.

Posted by: Smokey

Quik, are the Marauder engines that much stronger than the newer LS? I was just curious as they are only rated at 302HP and with SC get in the 450 RWHP range with moderate boost. I would also think the rear differential would be a limiting factor as well in the LS.

Posted by: Quik LS

yep - the Marauder came with the mustang quad valve 4.6L

- 4,601 cc 4.6 liters V 8 front engine with 90.2 mm bore, 90 mm stroke, 10.1 compression ratio, double overhead cam and four valves per cylinder 99V
-Power: 302 HP SAE @ 5,750 rpm; 318 ft lb @ 4,250 rpm

lot's of room for modding...

Posted by: rocket5979

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quik LS

what are you going to do for internals? Twin turbos seem like overkill for a engine that can only handle ~ 400hp without internals. It would be cool to see.

Thats what I was thinking! hehehe. Better build the bottom end of that engine if he plans to run twins!

Posted by: rocket5979

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smokey

Quik, are the Marauder engines that much stronger than the newer LS? I was just curious as they are only rated at 302HP and with SC get in the 450 RWHP range with moderate boost. I would also think the rear differential would be a limiting factor as well in the LS.

They aren't neccessarily stronger in construction, but they do come from the factory with less compression which is more boost friendly and they also have more displacement too which helps. The aftermarket for the SOHC 2V and DOHC 4V 4.6's is tons more than the DOHC 3.9 LS engine which has ZERO aftermarket.

You could rebuild a modular 4.6 to hold 550rwhp for $2,000 no problem with a new forged rotating assembly. If you were to build the LS engine the custom billet connecting rods alone would cost MUCH more than that.

The main weaknesses in the LS's powertrain and drivetrain in order would be:

Tranny
Engine rotating assy. (due to high comp if boosted)
Rear Diff
Rear halfshafts / hubspline
Wheel studs

The last two items would only occur under higher power levels (500+rwhp).

Posted by: Putter-GLHT

I guess the rubber U-joints were proven 10 years ago as not a weak link by the XR4Ti people, although those IRS like to gernade too... (They are an 8" also are they not?)

Posted by: 2001LS8Sport

Quote:

Originally Posted by rocket5979

You could rebuild a modular 4.6 to hold 550rwhp for $2,000 no problem with a new forged rotating assembly. If you were to build the LS engine the custom billet connecting rods alone would cost MUCH more than that.

Good point.

There are MANY engine builders who swear the short block for our 03/04 Cobras will handle a 1000 hp....stock right from the factory. However, piston clearances are so tight (.001") that you really need to open them up a couple of thousands to be safe. But other than the occasional piston grabbing due to the clearance issue, there are a lot of very high hp Cobras running around just fine. It's all in the tune.

Posted by: rocket5979

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2001LS8Sport

Yeah, those engine builders exaggerated a little. The 03/04 Cobra engines are truly badass (in the same league as the 2JZE Supra engines) and really strong but now that they have been out for a few years we have seen testing and failure points on the stock bottom ends. I would feel safe going to 650rwhp eddie current dynotuned on a twin screw, detuned water/meth combo, but I would always feel like I am running on borrowed time at any power level above that.

Now any other stock DOHC 4.6 bottom end (higher comp & crappy rods) I would treat like a fragile egg at anything around 500rwhp on a twin screw blower. Some fail at even lower power levels than those because while the Cobra cranks may be forged, the rods & pistons in the old gen Cobra's weren't.

Being that I dont want to try to afford yet another big supercharger project I believe I will go with the power adder that the LS naturally likes, which is the juice. A 75 dry shot sounds ok to me. Nothing too extreme to cause any damage and I can turn it off when others drive it. In the long run nitrous will be more expensive, but I'm ok with that.

I will save the bigger LS power numbers to the crowd (Quik & crew) with more money remaining in their wallets, as I am about tapped out with my current car project.

Posted by: PM80

So if everything goes well tomorrow and idea on how long we might be looking at to get the first production one out there?

I know one step at a time, but I want one yesterday. lol

Posted by: Quik LS

not dynoing until I get the front-mount intercooling installed - that will take at least this weekend..... I'll post more pics.

Posted by: eL eS

oh the agony of waiting and it isnt even my car.

Posted by: mikerc

Very nice.

Posted by: StinkinLinkinLS01

Quote:

Originally Posted by rocket5979

Being that I dont want to try to afford yet another big supercharger project I believe I will go with the power adder that the LS naturally likes, which is the juice. A 75 dry shot sounds ok to me. Nothing too extreme to cause any damage and I can turn it off when others drive it. In the long run nitrous will be more expensive, but I'm ok with that.

I will save the bigger LS power numbers to the crowd (Quik & crew) with more money remaining in their wallets, as I am about tapped out with my current car project.

You mentioned running a 75 DRY shot. I was planning on running a 75 WET shot. I was just about to purchase a 35-125 uni ford EFI Nitrous Express WET kit for my 2001 V8LS with 85K miles but I would like a little more input first. First and foremost I want to make sure I dont blow my motor. Of course the nos guys tell me my engine will be just fine running a 75 WET shot but then again they said my car could handle a supercharger on top of the nos and I'm not so sure of that. Obviously you prefer the dry-kit, I just wanted to know why you would choose that over the wet kit and what you (or anyone else) recommend in regards to the following:

- brand (if you think it matters, I was going with NX as others have)
- usage (frequency, WOT vs. push-button, rpm range, etc)
- accessories (heaters, purge kits, etc)

Most importantly I want long lasting performance with little or no nitrous related problems to the engine. I know alot of this depends on how you use it, and I'm fairly confident I'll be easy on her. I live in MN so I am only planning to spray on the weekends maybe 3 or 4 months out of the year. Thanks in advance.

p.s. What about detection by the dealership if I do fry a piston or something? My buddy who also runs nos on his V6 firebird - also under waranty - told me all I need is an oil change and nos is almost undetectable. Another guy told me a mechanic could tell the second he opened up the engine. Which is more correct? Thanks.

p.s.s. Up until now it looked like this guy had the optimum setup, only maybe with a 75 shot. Check it out:

http://forums.llsoc.com/index.php?showtopic=11514

Posted by: Iancusp

dry all the way

Posted by: Quik LS

I used a Nitrous Express Part # 20922 (wet) kit for almost a year. Ran 100shot a couple of times.

With a wet shot - you worry about fuel pooling and no2 mixing with that...
With a dry shot - you worry about the stock fuel pump keeping up and running lean

I went wet because it was long before the SCT reprogramer was available - so we had no chance of remapping the fuel curve or injector cycle - so I could never be sure I would not run lean.

Posted by: zexls

I run a 100hp shot on my 2000. I run the wet shot with a air/fuel gauge. No problems.

Posted by: Quik LS

Quote:

Originally Posted by zexls

I run a 100hp shot on my 2000. I run the wet shot with a air/fuel gauge. No problems.

any 1/4 mile times or dyno numbers?

Posted by: zexls

No not yet, the nearest track is 2hr away and I just got the sct Tue. The dyno is the next step. The only thing is that I am realy protective of my car and I dont let just any one in my car.

Posted by: rocket5979

Quote:

Originally Posted by StinkinLinkinLS01

Brand doesn't matter much. There will be praise and horror stories for every brand out there. Having a WOT and RPM window switch along with a bottle heater are some nice things to have to keep things safe. That way you know it will only spary while WOT and only during (for instance) a 3,000-6,250 rpm run. The bottle heater is to keep bottle pressure regulated through keeping the bottle temp regulated. The colder the bottle, the less nitrous your actually injecting due to less bottle pressure. If you want, you can also program and hook up an LC-1 wideband or other wideband to activate your nitrous system only during certain A/F ratios also so that you never run a chance of running lean while spraying.

I prefer the dry shot because it is easier to tune for and no pooling in the intake like Quik mentioned. Wet kits are great for bigger nitrous shot applications where you need more tunability within a certain system but the dry shot is just simpler to mess with. Running such a low shot on a stock engine in good form is pretty simple to do. However, running dual PA's (nitrous and charger) is asking for LOTS of trouble on most any stock bottom end on a vehicle, let alone the tranny and other components! Whoever you talked to that said those comments I would stay FAR away from as they don't know a thing about performance and safe limitations of drivetrain parts.

With a musclecar and a blown engine the dealer opens the engine looking for signs of mods causing the problem. With our vehicles, being that they are viewed very differently from typical musclecars, they don't get as keen an eye looking the engine over if it were to blow after nitrous becuase LS's aren't popular musclecars. hehe. If they even did notice what looked like damage from nitrous usage, they would be so suspect about their findings that they would probably doubt themselves into not believing their own data.

Whenever I take my LS to the dealer I always de-mod it all the way and reprogram back to stock so that when they do take a look-see all they see is a stock vehicle. Keeps things simpler in the future if something does go awry and I am trying to get it covered.

Posted by: StinkinLinkinLS01

So with all things considered and all necessary accessories:

- purge kit
- WOT/RPM switch
- bottle heater
- proper usage
- no more than 75-100 shot

Which is more dangerous and/or more likely to occur -- fuel pooling with a wet kit or running lean with a dry kit?

Posted by: 2001LS8Sport

Quote:

Originally Posted by StinkinLinkinLS01

So with all things considered and all necessary accessories:

- purge kit
- WOT/RPM switch
- bottle heater
- proper usage
- no more than 75-100 shot

Which is more dangerous and/or more likely to occur -- fuel pooling with a wet kit or running lean with a dry kit?

I have seen some HORRIBLE nitrous explosions with wet kits...blows the manifold clear off the car. That's what can happen with puddling, etc. It's rare...but I've seen it. It's even rarer with a dry kit...and with the availability to tune for it with the SCT now, it makes no sense to add the extra expense and work involved to go wet. However, you need to make sure you have the fuel capablities and injector size to keep from going lean. With a small shot, you're probably ok...but the only way to know for sure is to toss it on a dyno and have the a/f ratio checked and make sure your MAF sensor isn't maxing out. Just MHO......

Posted by: rocket5979

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2001LS8Sport

Well said... +1...

Posted by: Quik LS

Quote:

Originally Posted by zexls

I run a 100hp shot on my 2000. I run the wet shot with a air/fuel gauge. No problems.

I'm confused by this statement - you say you run a 100shot with no problems - but then you say you haven't been tuned yet.....

Have you really ran it yet on 100shot?

Posted by: rocket5979

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quik LS

I'm confused by this statement - you say you run a 100shot with no problems - but then you say you haven't been tuned yet.....

Have you really ran it yet on 100shot?

Maybe he is tuned by magic.

abacadabra!

Posted by: MrWilson

Quote:

Originally Posted by rocket5979

You could rebuild a modular 4.6 to hold 550rwhp for $2,000 no problem with a new forged rotating assembly. ).

WHAT!? FROM WHERE! i cant figgure out a way to rebuild one for less than 6k

Posted by: rocket5979

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrWilson

WHAT!? FROM WHERE! i cant figgure out a way to rebuild one for less than 6k

HOLY GOD! Dude I have a fully built billet racing shortblock that will hold 1000+ horsepower for $4,550 from VT Engines out of Lansing MI. For a little over $6,000 I could get a full longblock capable of withstanding 750rwhp! I don't know where you got quoted from, but that price is SUPER high. Talk to Modular Powerhouse, VT Engines, or Modular Depot for having a 4.6 built for you. I am having my 4.6 billet SB built by VT because they turn out one mean product and stand behind it 110%. If you were to get the built rotating assembly itself and do your own install the price would drop significantly from the $4,550 I mentioned above. That was a billet racing engine I was talking about, a forged one will be much cheaper.

Posted by: MrWilson

Quote:

Originally Posted by rocket5979

right...shortblock...4550....now, lets talk longblocks.

Posted by: rocket5979

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrWilson

right...shortblock...4550....now, lets talk longblocks.

That $4,550 amount was for a billet racing shortblock, not exactly your run of the mill SB. A regular SB (forged, not billet) capable of withstanding 600 or so hp will cost about $1,800 less. You wont need to get new heads unless the ones you have now are really messed up. Much much easier and less money involved in just having your current ones reworked and swap the cams out along with the springs and maybe the valves/guides and whatnot.

What my $2,000 amount was if you just get the forged rotating assembly and install it into your existing block yourself. Not too hard and kind of fun.

No real reason to go with a full longblock unless your existing heads are shot and you want to pay the high premium for it all.

Posted by: MrWilson

Quote:

Originally Posted by rocket5979

No real reason to go with a full longblock unless your existing heads are shot and you want to pay the high premium for it all.

oh yea, i know what your talkin bout....but seeing how the mark is runnin the B heads...it kinda makes it hard to bolt other intakes(specially the s/c) so id need heads and all too...longblock is a better option for me.

i checked out vt...their shortblock is $3495...i can get a longblock with the s/c for $3750 from my ford dealer...dont ask how, price is for me alone.

Posted by: zexls

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quik LS

I'm confused by this statement - you say you run a 100shot with no problems - but then you say you haven't been tuned yet.....

Have you really ran it yet on 100shot?

ya , not with the sct though

Posted by: Quik LS

Quote:

Originally Posted by zexls

ya , not with the sct though

sorry - still confused...

ya - you're tuned, but not with the SCT? Then with what?

or

ya - you run 100shot untuned

?

Posted by: Boomhower

Is Nitrous worth it and what are some potential issue's (engine wise) that a man might see from running it? I've been thinking about it for a while now and have learned a lot from this thread....thxs to all....But I just don't know how big of a risk it is, cause quite frankly, I have very, VERY little knowledge about anything that has been discussed in this thread. I only wish I had half the know how as some of you.

Posted by: Quik LS

nitrous - when tuned properly is ok - but when it goes bad, usually goes really bad and costs you and engine. Since NO2 has more oxygen than air - you are shoving more oxygen into you engine, then add more fuel and you have more power.

- the risk is you run lean (due to more air) so you have to find a way to add more fuel (tuning).
- one benefit of N)2 is that it automatically cools the intake air.
- NO2 is becoming more and more illegal in different states
- NO2 is without a doubt the easiest and cheapest install for power

NO2 (IMHO) is only worth it if you race other cars a lot. It's not like you will use it on the way to work..... which is the reason I took mine off and are going the supercharger route. Which turbos and superchargers - they add hp all the time, so it's like you have a more powerful engine in your car. NO2 is like you brought some dynomite with you that you can use if needed.....

Posted by: zexls

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quik LS

sorry - still confused...

ya - you're tuned, but not with the SCT? Then with what?

or

ya - you run 100shot untuned

?

I tuned the nitrous by using different jets trying to get the right air fuel mix.

Posted by: rocket5979

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrWilson

Oh ok I hear ya. I didn't know which mods you planned on going for. That makes sense for ya then.

When you say you can get a longblock with the supercharger I take it you mean a 03/04 longblock w/ charger? If so, then that is a screaming deal! The stock 03/04 Cobra bottom end will handle more than 600rwhp no problem.

The VT site is kind of weird right now. If you go to the high bandwidth part of the site the prices are diferent than the low bandwidth side. Even on the low bandwidth side a forged shortblock with your alum block and stock forged crank as a core only costs $2,900 for the Sportsman with forged H beam rods and forged pistons. Should hold 500rwhp no problem. I guess it depends on how much total power your looking for. Getting a forged Cobra bottom end with swapped 03/04 Cobra heads w/ Crower cams and a Kenne Bell 2.4 would be a sick thing in a Mark! hehe.

Posted by: Quik LS

Quote:

Originally Posted by zexls

I tuned the nitrous by using different jets trying to get the right air fuel mix.

well - I'm no expert here - isn't that simply changing the 'shot' size?

the 'rule of thumb' is to decrease your spark by at least 2 degrees per 100hp. Most nitrous guys end up going at least a degree cooler plug at 100shot as well - while change to a standard cooper plug with a different gap. the nitrous reacts badly with the platium in our OE plugs.

the only way I know to change your spark and fueling curve is to use the SCT and flash the PCM with new curves.

so if you are reducing the nitrous jet - aren't you simply reducing the shot?

I not trying to call you out - I 'hang out' with the local racers sometimes here - 75% of them have a nitrous bottle in their cars, colored purge plumes all over the place..... but less the a handful actually have tuned and put a bottle through their engine. Most of their installs a for 'show' only.

I want to understand when you say 'I run a 100shot no problem' if that is really the advice you are giving because you have figured it out...

I ran 100shot only a few times - before the SCT tuner was available - and the a/f ratio was way way way off - I would never recommend it without the tune.

Posted by: rocket5979

Quote:

Originally Posted by zexls

I tuned the nitrous by using different jets trying to get the right air fuel mix.

Ok, so you were running a wetshot to roughly set the A/F then.

Not trying to knock anyone's tuning preferences here but such things as spark timing retard and also spark plug heat range are some other things that are best addressed so as to prevent an engine blowing.

Posted by: SilverLS

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2001LS8Sport

Hey Im a little late to jump on here....
I worked with a nitrous company for alittle over a year and the guy was really big on making a NEW way of doing things....He spent a couple of years and more money to fix this POOLING problem...What happens is when you spray the Nitrous into the Intake on a wet kit there is two hole on the nozzle that screws into the intake....The fuel is on the bottom and it has very little pressure behind it so it more or less drops out of the nozzle and the Nitrous is blowing out at 950-1100 PSI(bottle pressure) and it picks up the fuel on the way....So its not the best thing to mix and atomize...and then it sprays out at a 90 degree angle...so it hits the side of your intake and the fuel Pools....They the nitrous keeps going and ignites and all that fuel that is running "late" flashes and BOOM....SO this guy figured out if you stack the wholes of the Fuel and N20 that you can get a better mixture and it also sprays in the intake at a 70 degree angle....So its not hitting your intake and being stopped....Also His nozzle sprays in a cone patter Vs the others spray in a flat finger style....We did some testing with a clear intake and you can see the other nozzles spray right into the side everytime and fuel weight more and runs down the sides of the intake ...With his its clear all the way to the end......

I had the old nozzles and than put the new one in and there was a night a day difference with my truck...Also it all mixes better so you actually can see it pick up time in the quater mile...

Posted by: SilverLS

Quote:

Originally Posted by rocket5979

I agree you need to run the right plugs if not your fighting an up-hill battle.....You get s copper plug with a short strap(the finger looking thing) and you get 1-2 ranges colder (anything 100hp shot or more) and then back the timing 1-2 degrees (per 75-100hp) and you will have a much better running system and you will get a longer life out of it because you will not have any detination....Also run 93+ octane this will keep the car from having detination also(the ls need this no matter what but other cars that only run 87)....You will be so much happier in the long run by doing this....

Just also remember you can get Very greedy with N20 and its very addictive to push a button, Flip a switch, or hit the right RPM's and yo get a Horse Power On Demand!!! You can exceed the motors capablility.... I had a s10 with spray and the guy at the speed shop that filled my bottle every other day sometimes twice a day told me to buy a bigger bottle and a smaller button!!! its fun once you control it...So be safe and smart and have fun with it...

Posted by: zexls

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quik LS

No, What I ment is that with the wet kit i used i have never had a backfire or
any thing like that. I have used no2 on 3 cars and 1 bike and I am still learning the in and outs.

Posted by: Quik LS

Quote:

Originally Posted by zexls

No, What I ment is that with the wet kit i used i have never had a backfire or
any thing like that. I have used no2 on 3 cars and 1 bike and I am still learning the in and outs.

cool - we are all learning....

so if you reduced the NO2 jet to maintain a proper a/f ratio - it's not likely you are running a 100shot any more....

our testing with a 75shot still put the a/f meter off the lean side of the scale....

Posted by: zexls

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quik LS

What engine size they are projecting the power gains. 302,351 ect.

Posted by: Quik LS

Quote:

Originally Posted by zexls

What engine size they are projecting the power gains. 302,351 ect.

so maybe I'm slow.....

but you respond to the queation about 'you really are not running a 100shot' with this.......

"What engine size they are projecting the power gains. 302,351 ect"

what are you asking? 302, 351...?

Posted by: SilverLS

If you want to adjust your A/F using the jets you would have to up your fuel or lower your fuel...

What kit are you running I can help you with the jets (maybe)....Let me know what you have and what your trying to do and I'll see what I can do...

Posted by: zexls

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quik LS

When you use a jet chart it is for a 4cy V6 or a V8, but do you use the same jets for a 289ci that you would a 460ci? A far as tuning my LS I have tryed to stay around the recomended jet size. I am trying to put mine on the dyno when I get the time.

Posted by: SilverLS

Quote:

Originally Posted by zexls

OK what they do that for is two reasons....First being that a v6 and a v8 you can spray a bigger shot on an eight....and it you look at the 4 6 8 kits the nitrous for a 75 is the same (so are the 100 and etc....) the difference is the Fuel Pressure.... when I built a kit to ship out a 4cy would get a 35 50 and 75 and eight would get 100 125 150 and some 175...

Like I said If you post what brand jets your using and size I can tell you what you should expect....

Posted by: beaups

guys maybe you should start an no2 thread to keep this one on topic. this is the most viewed thread in the LS forum......

Posted by: zexls

Quote:

Originally Posted by SilverLS

I use 30 fuel and 46 No2, on the ZEX jet chart the jets for a V8 100 shot are different than a V6 100 shot.

Posted by: SilverLS

Quote:

Originally Posted by zexls

I use 30 fuel and 46 No2, on the ZEX jet chart the jets for a V8 100 shot are different than a V6 100 shot.

the N20 should not be...the fuel is though...

Posted by: SilverLS

OK with the jets your running you have a 96 hp shot and your fuel jet is bigger than it needs to be so your safe...Your going to run rich with it so your safe....you should expect to get 81-82 HP at the wheels....

Posted by: rocket5979

Quote:

Originally Posted by SilverLS

OK with the jets your running you have a 96 hp shot and your fuel jet is bigger than it needs to be so your safe...Your going to run rich with it so your safe....you should expect to get 81-82 HP at the wheels....

Hey Quik, I think the reason you two were confused is that you were approaching ths shot size from a dry shot perspective (1 jet NO2 only) and he has a wet nitrous kit which has 2 jets, one for fuel and the other for the NO2. Simple miscommunication.

Just remember that rich is not always more safe. There comes a point where too rich is every bit as dangerous as running lean. Just saying it is best to get an A/F reading, whether that be from rigging up your own LC-1 or something of the like or taking it to a tuner to either take a reading while on the street or even just the good old tossing it up on the dyno with a Lambda screwed in, or worst case scenario a tail pipe sniffer.

Posted by: Quik LS

I understand it was a wet system - it's right about the 30 - 34 jet that you will be on the edge of OE fuel pump - with the incredible tuning that the OE's do on these engines running such little injectors - the entire fuel system ends up being much smaller than you would ever expect.

I could never get my a/f good all the way through the rpm band using the fuel jet only - I ended having to cut back down to a 75shot.

Posted by: rocket5979

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quik LS

I understand it was a wet system - it's right about the 30 - 34 jet that you will be on the edge of OE fuel pump - with the incredible tuning that the OE's do on these engines running such little injectors - the entire fuel system ends up being much smaller than you would ever expect.

I could never get my a/f good all the way through the rpm band using the fuel jet only - I ended having to cut back down to a 75shot.

Ok. It just didn't seem like it from what you were saying. No prob.

Most stock fuel systems will handle a decent amount of power with a few key mods. Heck swap the injectors and wire in a Kenne Bell Boost-a-pump and your pretty much set all the way to 400rwhp; and sometimes above in certain vehicles.

Posted by: 2001LS8Sport

Quote:

Originally Posted by zexls

I tuned the nitrous by using different jets trying to get the right air fuel mix.

I would assume you are using a wide band O2 sensor to check your a/f ratio then?

Posted by: rocket5979

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2001LS8Sport

I would assume you are using a wide band O2 sensor to check your a/f ratio then?

We can only hope.

Posted by: zexls

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2001LS8Sport

I would assume you are using a wide band O2 sensor to check your a/f ratio then?

Well the only thing I have to go of is a air fuel ratio gauge, Is that ok or is it not a true reading? The only other thing I do is pull the plug to make sure its a chocolate color. I need all the tips I can get.

Posted by: Quik LS

if your gauge is reading off the stock O2 sensors - then that a typical 1v reading - very narrow and slow to react. A 'wide-band' O2 sensor has a much broader range, and is typically faster to react to the readings.

If you are going to tune - do it on a dyno with an a/f sensor hookup and they'll weld in a bung into your exhaust above the cat to screw the wide-band sensor into.

Posted by: zexls

Allright, thanks I am trying to get to a dyno this week or weekend. I will let you know how it goes. I am going to record it and I will try to figure out ho to post it.

Posted by: 2001LS8Sport

Quote:

Originally Posted by zexls

If you're talking about one of those "light show" gauges, I wouldn't trust one of those as far as I could spit it. They really aren't much more than a light show. A wide band gauge is more expensive, requires a bung to be welded into the exhaust for the wide band O2 sensor, and is very quick and accurate.

Posted by: rocket5979

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2001LS8Sport

Yep, there are a few good ones out on the market now too. Innovate makes one called the LC-1 wideband which goes for $200 without the guage. It is a slight PITA to wire up but they are very nice units, especially for the price. Then the dynojet Wideband commander is quite a bit more expensive but comes with the guage and all that, and is more of a kit than the LC-1 is.

You can also set either one of those to ground between a certain A/F range which can be hooked up to activate your nitrous also. Just another way to play things safe with the nitrous so if you do start running lean, the system will automatically shut it off making things that much more safe.

You can hook either one of these units up through the 9 pin Mini-Din analog connector in the top of your Xcal2 units also, so as to take a detailed datalog of many different PID's and also your a/f while indexed to rpm and load.

Posted by: Putter-GLHT

Just remember, a wideband can lie to you just as much as one might think a narrow band is inaccurate.

Any oxygen sensor reads ONLY lack of oxygen. If you have a cylinder thats starting to foul out a plug or some other type of partial misfire, you're wideband can show crazy lean, and you could be rich enough to wash the cylinders... which is going to be just as harmfull, scored cylinders don't last long.

Never trust any one item 100%, EGTs and Widebands have certain lifetimes as they are both chemical. Its best to compare many things, EGT vs WB02 vs. Spark plugs.

Good tip on the copper plugs, they've more than saved a few engines between me and a friend. They are good for showing detonation too if you pull them after a pass, there will be traces of black and white specs, even if its not bad enough to crack the porcelain.

Posted by: SilverLS

Quote:

Originally Posted by Putter-GLHT

Just remember, a wideband can lie to you just as much as one might think a narrow band is inaccurate.

Any oxygen sensor reads ONLY lack of oxygen. If you have a cylinder thats starting to foul out a plug or some other type of partial misfire, you're wideband can show crazy lean, and you could be rich enough to wash the cylinders... which is going to be just as harmfull, scored cylinders don't last long.

Never trust any one item 100%, EGTs and Widebands have certain lifetimes as they are both chemical. Its best to compare many things, EGT vs WB02 vs. Spark plugs.

Good tip on the copper plugs, they've more than saved a few engines between me and a friend. They are good for showing detonation too if you pull them after a pass, there will be traces of black and white specs, even if its not bad enough to crack the porcelain.

damn good point....You need to check your plugs after each run and once you get it all "tuned" then after every bottle

Posted by: gixxerboi

so quick how is the intercooler coming along?

Posted by: bigpappy33

Any new dyno dates set? Possible update overall? Btw did i mention you are my hero? haha. No seriously.

Posted by: rocket5979

Hey Quik what are the updates bro? We are going to be old men by the time you get that thing dyno'd.

Posted by: Quik LS

yep - me too - I waiting on more tubing.....

they tried to deliver it but no one was home........ (even though we were home all day)

so I'll pick it up tomorrow and move forward.

I'll post more pics soon.

Posted by: rocket5979

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quik LS

they tried to deliver it but no one was home........ (even though we were home all day)

Hmmm, let me guess....UPS??? They do the SAME thing to me too!

Retards don't know how to knock on a door?

Posted by: eL eS

I just had some parts delivered from UPS. I knew they were coming and seen him pass my home and he was on his way out and I was able to catch him at another place up the street asked if he had my stuff on the truck and sure enough he did. Not so much as a sorry about that or a thanks for catching up to me.

Hey on another note. I amabout to to use a an Ar