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Woe is me... head gaskets need replacing.

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Posted by: brendangillespie

Well, my on-again, off-again cooling system problem that I've been troubleshooting for a while has finally come to an end. I've found the problem. My head gaskets are shot. I wish I would have just taken the car to a shop in the first place, because after seeing how simple the test is to check if the head gaskets are shot, I could have avoided all the t/s'ing I've done so far (replacing the thermostat, water pump, temperature sensor; coolant flush, pressure check, burping the coolant system).

Woe is me! I have had this possibility in the far corner of my brain since this problem first started, so it's not that much of a shock. It still sucks though, realizing that I'm going to have to drop a butt-ton of money into this car to fix this. The mechanic at Firestone Service Center told me it would probably be around $1500-$1600 at a shop that does this kind of thing. I'm going to call around today and start getting estimates.

My question is, before I get this expensive work done, is it worth it? I've been told that if I continue to drive the car, it could have permanent damage done to the engine. The problem is, I've been driving this car for about 3 months now, having this on-again, off-again problem... I don't think the head gaskets are in extremely bad shape, just leaking slightly, because the only time I'm seeing white exhaust smoke is when I start the car after sitting awhile (it also start rough after sitting a while). What I'm sure is happening is that the cylinders are forcing pressure into my cooling system, and that's what making the coolant pressurized so much that it's flowing out of my reservoir tank. When it's sitting, just a little bit of coolant is seeping into the pistons/cylinders, which makes for a rough start after a day of sitting and a little bit of white exhaust smoke.

So, since I've been driving the car for about 3 months since the symptoms first started, does anyone think that I have permanent damage to the engine? I would hate to drop $2000 for new head gaskets and find out that the engine is all !#$3ed up inside. When I was driving the car, it ran smoothly, so it doesn't seem like there was any damage.

Thanks for any tips or info anyone can give me!!

Posted by: scott9050

You can get a low mileage engine installed for about 2 grand, so I would say personally that I would not bother. Maybe you can try the headgasket leak sealer that they have on the market.

Posted by: JMiles_T

Quote:

Originally Posted by brendangillespie

My question is, before I get this expensive work done, is it worth it? I've been told that if I continue to drive the car, it could have permanent damage done to the engine. The problem is, I've been driving this car for about 3 months now, having this on-again, off-again problem... I don't think the head gaskets are in extremely bad shape, just leaking slightly, because the only time I'm seeing white exhaust smoke is when I start the car after sitting awhile (it also start rough after sitting a while).

Yes, it's worth fixing.

Permanent damage is likely if you continue to drive with a bad head gasket. With your gasket compromised, coolant will leak into the oil diluting it. This will cause more wear on your engine parts.

This isn't even the worst that can happen; if it starts leaking faster, your engine might hydrolock.

$1500 sounds like just a little a bit much for that job. You might save $200 or so by looking for another shop.

If you're good at remembering where things go, and you have tools and an instruction book, you can go after it yourself. You'll need a machine shop to mill the surfaces of the engine parts flat, in case they warped when the gasket blew.

Posted by: Roadboss

You are at one of those major cross roads, because there are a couple of routes for you to take, and none are going to be cheap. To get your heads off the cross member needs removed just to get to the header bolts. The head gaskets and the head bolts are a one time use item so you will need to buy new ones (Not Cheap either) then you need to do the machine work on the heads. A price of $1500 dollars doesn't sound outragious to me for a shop to do all this. So then you have to ask your self if you plan on really keeping the car for a long time (dump it now). Then the evil comes out and says to you to go and get a used setup and have it machined with all the goodies (Forged bottom end, Comp valve job, P&P, new cams) and install this motor, because after all who knows how long a motor from a junk yard will last. Aw the torture of it all.

Posted by: Warden

Anyone know of availability of complete engines to swap in. And price?

Posted by: 94m5

How many miles are on the car? If it's still driveable, come to chicago this weekend and Ill swap your head gaskets at the meet. You buy the soda, (and the parts) since it's a dry park. Let me know if you want to do that and Ill bring my tools.

Mike

Posted by: scott9050

Quote:

Originally Posted by 94m5

How many miles are on the car? If it's still driveable, come to chicago this weekend and Ill swap your head gaskets at the meet. You buy the soda, (and the parts) since it's a dry park. Let me know if you want to do that and Ill bring my tools.

Mike

Now that is an offer that would be hard to refuse.

Posted by: brendangillespie

Quote:

Originally Posted by 94m5

Thanks for the offer! The car has about 110000 miles on it, and your offer is really tempting. Today I found a place that will replace the gaskets for about $1500 labor. They do a lot of work on Cobra engines, so I trust them, and they were also recommended to me by the place where I have my work usually done. The owner told me $1500 for labor, about $300 for new head gaskets and bolts, and about $70 to get each head milled. Your offer is really tempting, but I don't think it's a good idea to drive to Chicago with the head gaskets bad, and also since I should probably have the heads milled anyway.

Posted by: buddylee

was you oil milky?? if so the anti-freez can screw up your low end.

Posted by: brendangillespie

Quote:

Originally Posted by buddylee

was you oil milky?? if so the anti-freez can screw up your low end.

No coolant in the oil (not milky), and no oil in the coolant (no oil sheen or spots).

The mechanic used a little tube thing with blue liquid in it, stuck it in the coolant refill hole, and it turned yellow. He said that if it had stayed blue it would have meant the head gaskets were fine, but it turned yellow because of combustible gases in the coolant system.

Posted by: Roadboss

I am an anitique in some areas, and I am not familar with the test that you described to check for a leaking head gasket. Maybe this is something new that uses a PH factor or such to measure the concentration of petroleum product in your coolant. I have in the past done these tests by screwing in an air line in each cylinder, and pressurizing (both valves closed) during the compression stroke to observe any air bubbles that are present in the system. My concern would be that we know that our oil filter/ coolant adapter has been known to be a source of problems, and that this could be your real culprit, and that the haze you see on start up is no more than typical condensation in your exhaust.

Posted by: brendangillespie

Anybody out there know what kind of head gaskets and bolts I should get (i.e. what brand, size, type, where to get it, all that...)? I've been told that while I can go OEM, that there are better quality, performance head gaskets out there... any recommendations anyone? Thanks

Posted by: Roadboss

here is a place that offers the whole kit for $130.00.
http://www.karkraft.com/

I would also check with Max at 5 Star. If you are keeping the car stock there's no need to get expensive.

Posted by: brendangillespie

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roadboss

here is a place that offers the whole kit for $130.00.
http://www.karkraft.com/

I would also check with Max at 5 Star. If you are keeping the car stock there's no need to get expensive.

So the one at this site: http://www.karkraft.com/modular_parts.htm

will fit my '98 Mark VIII LSC? I don't want to drop $130 before making sure. Is is the OEM replacement, or would it be considered a little better quality? Better quality is what I'm looking for.